Dr. Peter's observations on "mysticism v. hysteria" in sacred music
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I can't wait for JMO to open commentary at his great blog, A VIEW FROM THE CHOIR LOFT at CCW. In a post today, Pr. Kwasniewski writes and cites:
    I was rather struck by this passage in Richard R. Terry’s 1907 book Catholic Church Music:

    I think we may say that modern individualistic music, with its realism and emotionalism, may stir human feeling, but it can never create that atmosphere of serene spiritual ecstasy that the old music generates. It is a case of mysticism versus hysteria. Mysticism is a note of the Church: it is healthy and sane. Hysteria is of the world: it is morbid and feverish, and has no place in the Church. Individual emotions and feelings are dangerous guides, and the Church in her wisdom recognises this.”

    One example of hysteria is the insistence, which has grown in the minds of some people nearly to the magnitude of a first unshakeable principle, that the people must always and everywhere understand everything that is being sung or said during the liturgy. True, if people never knew what the words meant, they would be at a distinct disadvantage when it came to internalizing the instruction offered by the music. But at the same time, there is something inherently sacred and beautiful, elevating and nourishing, in the music itself, if it is sung with piety and skill.


    I think this notion would serve as a wonderful platform for discussion of all sorts of music genres, BUT, by specific example or the argument will de-evolve into taste. For example, I will advance the proposition that the first movement of Vivaldi's famed GLORIA, though couched thoroughly in good musical principles, exhibits a hysterical expedition of the text rather than mystical, whereas the Vaughn-Williams accomplishes the opposite effect. I would assess the quasi-spiritual (Dvorak) "Goin' Home" as fulfilling the mystical effect, but "I Got the Keys to the Kingdom" doesn't, and whether its hysteria one considers a positive or negative is based upon taste.
    A brief sum up as a starter- it also seems to me that besides the genre and its attributes, for example GUI in a brisque 3, both the music AND the text (especially when didactic) are inherently hysterical, and therefore counterproductive and unsuitable. What think ye?
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    Unfortunately, the word "hysteria" labors under way too much baggage to be useful in this conversation. As to Prof K's point: A hazy unintelligible nimbus of sound - like a "churchy" Hollywood soundrack - can be more "hysterical" than "mystical"; the issue is how immediately intelligible ought a liturgical text ideally be to participants in the liturgy? I would say that texts that are repeated regularly have more freedom in this regard than texts used rarely. Even the Church itself has taken pains, on a periodic basis, to discourage music that renders texts too unintelligible, so we know that intelligibility is a valid consideration.

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  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    KLS, jus' tryin' to keep the forum lively. But OTOH, I might quibble that what 1907 Terry's conception and definition of "hysteria" amounted to was not so loaded with as much baggage in this era. Find another word?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    1907 Terry's conception and definition of "hysteria" amounted to was not so loaded with as much baggage in this era.


    I don't know. I think back then the word was much more loaded than it typically is now.

    ( cf also http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=hysterical )
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  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Oops.
    And I can't believe you went there, Dr. Kellogg. But that does enliven the thread moreso, um....
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    It's probably beside the point he was trying to make... probably.
    But in 1907 he can hardly have been unaware of the usage.

    (In fact- I would say that the average person using the word today is much more likely to mean it "innocently" as a description of frenzied, irrational emotion; as opposed to the late-19th century understanding of feminine weakness).

    Anyway- I do basically agree that a shallow stirring up of the emotions is not a particularly worthwhile approach to liturgical music.
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  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    (Hysteria in 1907 was indeed even more a loaded term than it is now; the usage today is shallow and diluted by comparison.)

    I prefer a crisp Saxon phrase like "crack high" to convey the idea.

    And, of course, a hazy nimbus of ethereal chant is still quite capable of creating a dependency on a crack high, even with lovely rationalizations to obscure that. (PS: I love chant. But my love it has less to due with aestheticism than other factors.)
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  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    (Caveat, I hope this is not too rambling and off-topic)

    On the other hand, there exists a corpus of vocal liturgical music that seems primarily to exist on its own in a purely musical way, with the texts almost seeming to be there solely for the purpose of having something to vocalize: Graduals, Alleluias, Tracts, the Responds of Matins. Though I often chant these is English, I sometimes find that futile since no matter how well one annunciates the text, its still often lost in the melismas, they would be just as intelligible if I sang them in Old Low German. These texts often come once, maybe twice, a year (more if they're in the Commons) so familiarity of the text is not a consideration. Whereas the settings of the Responsorial Psalm and "Gospel Acclamation" are usually very short, with the text set in an incredibly intelligible way yet these are often decried as being trite and devoid of any real musical content.

    I think something that we should consider is the difference between the paradigm of sacred music (Chant), and the paradigm of secular music (pop/rock/jazz/etc.). One is mensural, the other not, one is overwhelmed by the notion of time, the other in a notion of timelessness.

    The examples of 'hysteria' v 'mysticism' that MeloCharles cites above show this: the Vivaldi is martial, in 4/4 time, the beats are emphatically rammed down your throat: this is the church version of "The High School Cadets": It gets the heart pumping and the adrenalin flowing; 'hysteria'. RVW on the other hand, thoroughly influenced by Renaissance polyphony (Palestrina, esp.) and free-rhythm folk-song, floats along on a sea of tranquility, even during the more rhythmic sections (Laudamus te,...) , which serve merely as musical exclamation marks, the real meat is in the middle section which is fairly soft, with the 'beat', obvious in the Vivaldi, intentionally obscured, until the soaring 'cum Sancto Spiritu' and 'amen' at the end; this music makes you look up at (if you're lucky enough to be in a 'churchy' church, the Crucifix, or Pantocrator on the East wall or Reredos: it is a mystical experience.

    I'll take as another example of the 'hysterical' aspect of music the Mass which the choir I now direct sang or its Golden Jubilee in 1964 : W.A. Leonard's Third Mass in B-flat (published in 1916, but composed before then). The whole Mass is much more in keeping with the schmaltzy, sentimental music of its day; the Dona Nobis is especially atrocious. It is a March (not unlike those of Johann Straus, Jr.), of exceedingly silly proportions, with a high soprano solo - this music comes not from the church but from the opera house: it is there to excite the emotions: to get the juices flowing - how is that 'granting us peace'? Contrast this with the Dona Nobis from Haydn's Missa Brevis in B-flat (S Joannis de Deo/Kleine Orgelmesse), where the overall effect is one of tranquility and serenity - there is a definite pulse there, but it's not beaten down your throat.

    It seems that what were really referring to here in this discussion is the idea of the 'beat': Rock music with a very heavy (and often fast) beat creates hysteria, Gregorian chant with a pulse, but no true 'beat' creates mysticism. Is it the repetitive beat, the fundamentum of dance music of any kind (Minuet, Waltz, March, Polonez), that creates this feeling of hysteria vs. mysticism? How far does the intelligibility of a text add or subtract from this feeling? I don't know.
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  • teachermom24
    Posts: 327
    True, if people never knew what the words meant, they would be at a distinct disadvantage when it came to internalizing the instruction offered by the music. But at the same time, there is something inherently sacred and beautiful, elevating and nourishing, in the music itself, if it is sung with piety and skill.


    Maybe tangentially related (I think more) . . . this reminded me of something I recently read in Ellen Rose's essay, On Reflection:

    Sight has a natural bias toward detachment, creating the detached observer, whereas sound has an opposite bias: it surrounds, involves—one steps into it.

    Kathy