mother's day- marian hymn
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    Hi Everyone,

    I am wondering what other music directors opinions are about having a marian hymn on mother's day. The previous MD at the church before I got there was always putting a marian hymn in on mother's day. Mother's Day is a secular holiday and not sacred, so I'm curious on others opinions.

    Thanks so much for all your input!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I don't do a Marian hymn, as a rule, but one of our soloists has sung "Ave Maria" as a gift to his mother for years before I was hired. Changing that would cause great ill will, and it isn't worth it.
  • In general, I'm not a big fan, but then again I have no problem with one (and only one) Marian piece on a Sunday in May, so it's six of one and half-dozen of the other.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • Always, the ordo and lectionary tell us what is appropriate on any given day. As you have noted, Mothers' Day is not to be found there. Besides, IF one were to perform a Marian hymn on Mothers' Day, one should want to perform a hymn to the Father on Fathers' Day. This would only be right and just. They are, after all, of equal importance.
    However, as CharlesW witnesses, there are places where one has inherited an unfortunate 'tradition' that would be very complicated to discontinue. But, if you haven't inherited such a 'tradition', don't create one!
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    You could always do the marian antiphon as the recessional. Every week. Including Mother's day.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,944
    First choice: ignore in the music programming.
    Second choice: Regina caeli at recessional.
    Third choice: Magnificat (ideally with Eastertide antiphon, mit alleluia) during communion.
  • In my previous training as a Catholic church musician, I took classes through the Boston Archdiocese Office for Worship in the late 1980s. We were taught that if an additional musical theme (i.e. Mother's Day, Father's Day, Independence Day, etc.) were to receive a "nod" during the Mass, the additional "musical nod" could be sung (by choir, soloist or cong.) at the Offertory, being it is the transition point between the liturgy of the word and the liturgy of the Eucharist. The other is place is, as has been suggested here, as a recessional hymn, since the recessional hymn is not considered a part of the close of the liturgy, whereas an organ postlude is, I believe. I'm not sure if the documents on music and liturgy have changed much since the 1980s, as I'm no longer an active organist in the Roman church these days, but sing in a fine Episcopal church choir where guidelines are a bit different. Hope this is helpful, but if my info is outdated or obsolete, my apologies. Not intented to lead anyone liturgically astray.
  • Bobby Bolin
    Posts: 417
    For what it's worth:

    http://www.canticanova.com/articles/feedback/arte31.htm

    I had always been under the (unconfirmed) assumption that it was appropriate to use Marian hymns/antiphons during the month of May.
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 890
    Since G3 is now my official "white list" I'm reduced to programming "God of Eve and God of Mary" on Mother's Day. Still, it goes against my better judgement. But since we're officially ignoring the propers anyways, why not go all out?

    I do think an Ave for a choral prelude or another Marian hymn for a recessional would be appropriate. But if one were to substitute a Marian hymn for a Marian proper it would best to do this only on a Marian Feast Day, where the Ave is often the text of the Offertory Antiphon (as stated in the above CanticaNova link)

    This year Mother's Day fall on Ascension Sunday (in most Diocese where it is transferred) so substituting a Marian hymn for an Ascension hymn (or an Easter hymn in another year) for the Entrance, Offertory or Communion doesn't make liturgical sense, though one could justify a Marian recessional, I think.
    Thanked by 1francis
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,295
    @Earl_Grey,

    Does G3 not have any other Marian tunes? Didn't GC1 have all the "hits" like Immaculate Mary; Hail, Holy Queen; O Sanctissima; Sing of Mary; Be Joyful, Mary? I know that I have them in W3, so maybe that's clouding my recollection of GC1...
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 890
    It does have most of them, although the Regina Coeli is one glaring omission . I was being somewhat factious. I'm further limited by the only one traditional hymn per Mass rule and I opted for an Ascension hymn. I mean why include a "mother's day hymn" in a "catholic" hymnal anyways. I suppose it could be used a prelude or maybe sung in the narthex coffee-shop.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,295
    Ohhhh...I had forgotten that you had a "one traditional hymn per Mass" rule. I would have a very, very difficult time programming with restrictions like that. Raising a glass to you as we speak!
  • I will be programming in "On This Day O Beautiful Mother" somewhere in the mix. I considered teaching my choir "O Maria, Madre Mia" (a parishioner of Spanish origin brought that one to my attention once, and I think it would be lovely), but don't have the time this year. Maybe next.
  • Since none of the hymns are actually part of the liturgy (I think of them more or less like motets in the old mass), I don't see how a Marian hymn is a problem. It's not like there are particular hymns assigned to the 7th Sunday after Easter that it would be replacing.
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Earl_Grey - Couldn't you do the Sister Act version of Salve Regina?
  • I see nothing wrong, either, about programming a Marian hymn as a recessional (since technically, it's not part of the mass anyway). I am also programming Marian hymns as recessionals throughout the month of May. The children's choir does the chant Ave Maria as a communion meditation. For Mother's Day, I will definitely program "On This Day".
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 890
    Adam. Yes. Probably so.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    It's May, it's Mother's Day in USoA, what's a choir/congregation to do?
    For us, at Communion: the Rice proper/Communion congregational hymn, non-Marian specific/Dufay: Ave Regina Caelorum (not proper, according to the GIRM as it ain't a "hymn of praise" sung by all. I'll never understand this prohibition!)
    At dismissal, most likely LOURDES, because if you want them to stay and join in, the choice has to be anthemic and visceral, like "Battle Hymn" or "Joy to the World." Singing something saccharine (OTDOBM) or esoteric (There is nothing told about this woman by Willcocks) will not delay the hordes heading for Mummy's Day brunch at Olive Garden. YMMV.
  • Chrism
    Posts: 868
    Marian music is never unsuitable for Liturgy. De Maria nunquam satis - with Mary there is never enough!

    In fact, as Mary is the bridge between the testaments, the Propers themselves can all be understood as intrinsically Marian: we in the Church pray the Psalms like Mary our Mother (who is the earliest Church) prayed the Psalms. Prophecy points to Mary; the Epistles call us brethren to be Maryform. We experience the events of the Gospel through the eyes of Mary, who accompanied her Son throughout His earthly life. Even the Ordinary and the rubrics of the Mass...but don't get me started.

    There's no legal requirement NOT to program hymns to Mary at every Liturgy, whenever incidental music is allowed. I am speaking here of the entire Church year, in every rite and use, and every time and place. One community I know uses the Regina Coeli by Lotti as the Offertory Motet, Concordi Laetitia as the Communion hymn, and "Be Joyful, Mary" as the Recessional - at every Easter Vigil.

    Don't let a secular holiday like "Mothers' Day" stop you from programming Marian hymns.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 966
    Liam said...

    First choice: ignore in the music programming.
    Second choice: Regina caeli at recessional.
    Third choice: Magnificat (ideally with Eastertide antiphon, mit alleluia) during communion.


    One year, at the pastor's suggestion, I did the second option. The "liturgy coordinator" was absolutely livid about that and sent me an email stating that Regina Caeli can ONLY be played immediately after Communion.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    Mother's Day falls in the month of may. A lot of parish churches run by religious orders request Marian Recessionals during May.
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • Don9of11Don9of11
    Posts: 685
    Since May is the month the Church dedicates to Our Blessed Mother it is not only proper to have a Marian hymn(s) on Sunday's but even more so on Mothers Day. Have we all forgotten our commandments? Honor Thy Father and Thy Mother.

    Never be ashamed to show love and honor to the Blessed Mother as St. Louis De Montfort writes - "When we praise her, love her, honor her or give anything to her, it is God who is praised, God who is loved, God who is glorified, and it is to God that we give, through Mary and in Mary"

    Our choir is singing "Nothing Is Impossible for God" as prelude, Hail Mary, Gentle Woman for communion meditation provided the pastor permits this, and Immaculate Mary for recessional.
    Thanked by 1mmeladirectress
  • My local parish does a special blessing of moms before the end of the mass. There's no need to expound in music Mothers' Day, especially since the homily will also have something about it. In fact the cantors have not programmed a single Marian hymn, which was always done in the past. St. Anne, patron saint of mothers, may not even make it into the canon prayer this Sunday.
    At my second parish, the liturgy is devoted to the BVM on a weekly basis owing to the priests being of a Marian order. A whole host of Marian hymns following the final hymn would be sung by the faithful by heart in Latin, although I'm the only accompanist who dares to go there.
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • jr3672
    Posts: 4
    I select Marian Hymns as much as possible. Hymns to Mary as well as prayers to Mary are what define us as Catholics and Christians. When we honor Mary we honor her son. She intercedes for us so why not give her a special place in our heats by singing Marian Hymns as much as possible..
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,075
    thanks jr3672, you said what I was going to say. :)
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,371
    GS gives the Magnificat with antiphon Sanctum nomen Domini, ... / My soul glorifies your holy name as always available as the Communion chant.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,956
    But, not all Marian hymns are created equal, and the number of other hymns for the temporal and sanctoral cycle mean that you have to be very selective, espeically if you only have two hymns at the procession and the recession. Now, that Mother’s Day is not originally from the church’s calendar, but a Marian hymn in May is fine. The Regina Caeli is probably best, but I am sure there are fine Paschaltide hymns which still can be sung...ymmv.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    ...moved to a new post.
  • mmeladirectress
    Posts: 1,075
    >> Regina Caeli is probably best, but I am sure there are fine Paschaltide hymns which still can be sung

    yes!
    apart from Salve Festa Dies, Pascha Nostrum, Pone Luctum, etc,
    there is the Gregorian Regina Caeli Laetare, solemn or simple tone, or the polyphonic of this (Lotti, etc) and Regina Caeli Jubila, two of which are in the Secunda Anthologia Vocalis,

    and the Gregorian Magnificat with triple alleluias (Cantus Selecti)

    We use all of these in Paschaltide.