Mass setting, Imprimatur and ICEL permissions
  • Earl
    Posts: 15
    Hi I have written some music for the mass. With the new English texts. Iv written it for our local community.
    Im rather new to writing music for mass and also quite young so I dont know much of the procedures to be followed.

    Can you please tell me how to go about the copyright permissions with the ICEL?
    and do I need an imprimatur before I ask ICEL for permission?
    Can I sing the mass at a local parish without imprimatur?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    I'm not sure of the official legal status, but in practice you only need to worry about ICEL Copyrights if you sell your music.

    You need to no specific approval to sing your newly composed setting in your own parish, providing it does, in fact, use the text exactly as is. (And if it doesn't, then you de facto shouldn't be using it.)

    In theory, you should get the musical setting approved by (at least) your local bishop before making it publicly available. In practice, this is pretty much not needed at all.

    If you manage to get a major publisher to publish it, they will take care of all of that for you. If you don't plan to sell it, but basically want to give it away for free, your best bet is to just go ahead and do so. Bishops have more pressing concerns than musical approval stamps.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    ICEL's copyright policies are spelled out at their website.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    If you wait for an Imprimatur in some diocese (let's see, I have things submitted 6+ years ago in local diocese - actually submitted, told by local Censor to send to Archbishop since there was no Bishop, Archbishop returns them asking that I wait until we have Bishop and I did, then submitted to local when Bishop installed...and no response since) style of music will change before you ever get to hear them sung!

    It makes one feel that there are palms that should have had money placed in them...
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen IanW
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    I'd echo Adam, except that I'd try at least once to get it approved, so you can at least say you tried. Jut send a copy off to the office of worship with a letter.
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    let's see, I have things submitted 6+ years ago

    Well, that puts my troubles in perspective, Noel. England and Wales have a national arrangement. I submitted some material the best part of two years ago and it's still stuck in the the works (which are secretive and lacking in clarity, consistency and accountability). I have communicated with the lay functionary responsible and the Bishop responsible for him, to no avail - not even the common decency of a reply, let alone an explanation and update. In what fantasy land are these people chosen for and managed in their particular capacities?
  • Earl
    Posts: 15

    ...ok just going back ... commenting on Adams post..
    the texts Iv used are as is..no changes..except for the Lenten Acclamation I have used 'Praise to You Lord Jesus Christ, King of eternal glory'....I hope thats okay...

    I intend to keep it totaly free... so what I need to do is just need to put ICEL's copyright notice below my work right?

    Also...a per Adams post ..in practice no approval is needed?...in that case even if someone uses all the right texts what guarantee is there that his music style is suitable for mass??

    Iv tried to get mine approved but it so happens that my diocese isn't equipped to approve hymns and settings in the English language, only in the vernacular...so I think I need to sell it elsewhere for approval?
    or is just the local parish priests permission enough?
    or the superior of the place you will be using it?

    I mean I really feel I need some kind of approval...



  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    .no changes..except

    that's a change

    .in that case even if someone uses all the right texts what guarantee is there that his music style is suitable for mass??

    official approval has never been able to guarantee this anyway. I mean- goodness - have you been to a vernacular Mass in the last 40 years?

    isn't equipped to approve hymns and settings in the English language, only in the vernacular

    where are you?

    I mean I really feel I need some kind of approval...

    not withstanding a perfunctory "wink wink nudge nudge" statement that this is required, almost nobody with the power to approve such things seems to think that such approval is needed

  • Earl
    Posts: 15
    .no changes..except

    yea I thought one was permitted to put together a combination of the lenten acclamations? thats why I didnt consider it a CHANGE....but I may be entirely wrong...so if thats not permitted let me know ok? Il just change it...

    where am I?

    somewhere in India :)

  • Earl
    Posts: 15
    and let me know if Im doing the right thing in just adding the ICEL copyright statement below my work..
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Make sure that it's clear that the ICEL copyright applies to the text only: "Excerpts from the Roman Missal Third Edition @2011 International Commission..." etc.

    If you feel unsure about getting approval, call the Office for Worship in your diocese and ask them if you need to submit it before using it, or before publishing it, or not at all. That will be an official enough answer.

  • Earl
    Posts: 15
    thanks a lot chonak ...
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 468
    Hah... if your diocese even has a liturgy office! We don't have one here in the Archdiocese of New York.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    wow.
  • Earl
    Posts: 15
    what about the lenten acclamation? is it okay?
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