• Blaise
    Posts: 439
    http://www.vatican.va/

    Pope Francis I (Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio of Argentina):

    http://www.foxnews.com/index.html
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    Anyone know anything about him from a liturgical standpoint?
  • darelmass
    Posts: 11
    I can tell you that the traditionalists at Rorate Caeli are in despair. That should tell us something at least.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • Blaise
    Posts: 439
    Not knowing Pope Francis' liturgical standpoint on liturgy, I cannot comment one way or another. However, if it is God's will that He be worshipped in beautiful liturgy, I highly doubt that our Holy Father will undo the work of Pope Benedict XVI.

    I just posted this for general Catholic interest, not necessarily from a viewpoint of liturgy.
  • Bobby Bolin
    Posts: 417
    NBC described him as a follower of John Paul II and at one point mentioned the words "too orthodox"
  • Ambrosius
    Posts: 49
    Sancte Francisce, ora pro eo.
    Thanked by 1Chris Allen
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    too orthodox


    I don't think that's a thing.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,046
    Fr. Michael Pfleger is probably too orthodox for NBC. So one should be cautious in interpreting it as praise.
    Thanked by 1Chris Allen
  • CNN is saying he tends to lean very conservative.
  • Ally
    Posts: 227
    EWTN commentator also said, "He is known as a pillar of orthodoxy"...
  • darelmass
    Posts: 11
    From what I can tell, Pope Francis is conservative in theology but not so much in liturgy. That being said, I doubt that liturgical innovation was a factor in the election. We have Pope Benedict's reforms and our charge to cultivate them. Let us pray that Pope Francis has the will and the strength to clean the Curia.
    Thanked by 2francis CHGiffen
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Liturgically, we'll know when he either keeps or removes Msgr Marini.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I am curious. When he gave the blessing, did he give the world absolution? It sure sounded like it.
  • Scott_WScott_W
    Posts: 468
    I am curious. When he gave the blessing, did he give the world absolution? It sure sounded like it.


    I suffered CBS and a horrible translator, but I doubt it if you mean absolution with sacramental validity.

  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    No, he gave a plenary indulgence, and absolution. That's why I asked.
  • Jani
    Posts: 441
    Sounded like that to me Charles.
  • Nisi
    Posts: 146
    Does anyone know if "Long Live the Pope" posted here somewhere in PDF?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Thanks, Jani. He specifically mentioned all who were listening through electronic media, etc., and specified the whole world. He's pope, so he could certainly do it.
  • TCJ
    Posts: 966
    After our new Pope left the balcony, one of the first things I did was hop on the organ and play "Long Live the Pope".
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 774
    Oremus pro Pontifice nostro Francisco (with corrected name in prayer and translation!)
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    yea, i was wondering about the plenary indulgence too. i was wondering if i heard correctly. anyone have more details on that one? a plenary indulgence almost always carries with it, if not always, the requirement for confession and communion within a short time.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    He did mention something about the usual conditions of the church.
  • tomboysuzetomboysuze
    Posts: 289
    Anyone know anything about him from a liturgical standpoint?


    I've been thinking about this since I heard the news of Pope Francis, who I must say I was immediately drawn to for his humility. Liturgically, I've not found too much on his views, so I'd love to know more if anyone has info.
    I did find this on Rorate Caeli -- http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2009/09/on-state-of-tradiitonal-roman-rite-in.html

    On the state of the Traditional Roman Rite in Latin America -- a liberal's report
    ARGENTINA
    It is a well-known fact that we have here a Lefebvrist seminary, today led by Mons. Alfonso de Galarreta. For the rest, there are no particular requests in this country for the Missal of 1962. The Cardinal of Buenos Aires has given the permission to celebrate a Sunday mass in the extraordinary form, in which participates a reduced group of around 20 persons. This is the situation in almost all the other dioceses. The eventuality of a Reform of the Reform is viewed by many priests with great concern (con grande preoccupazione). They are of the opinion that this might disturb liturgical peace, which they consider to be well consolidated in their country.
    (There have been reports that the Sunday TLM in Buenos Aires is celebrated facing the people. If those reports are true, the small size of the congregation wouldn't be surprising. CAP)

  • Jani
    Posts: 441
    Anyone besides me think he chose "Francis" because he intends to be a peacemaker?
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    This isn't news, as Dcn. Fritz Bauerschmidt has linked to Rorate Coeli Combox thread-
    the reaction hasn't been positive other than hopefulness and blessing. Those purporting to be from Argentina have not been complimentary to Pope Francis' "liturgics" and are advancing that he's been a less than warm endorser of SP.
    I think we have a scenario much like the election of JP1, let's pray not the same outcome.
    We have to let ourselves accept the Holy Spirit's activity with this election. If we cannot do that, then we can't call ourselves "catholics," can we?
    I also want to thank Richard for his "Oremus" prayer at Cafe. It served as a great example of chanted prayer before I began the Interval Recognition Olympiad today among grades 4-7, preparing the kids to recognize intervals from m2-8ve ascending and descending. It's a great unit to work chant into.
    Thanked by 1tomboysuze
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I have often said that the Holy Spirit gets blamed for much that he doesn't do. I hope this is not one of those instances. I once knew a nun who said the Holy Spirit was trying to tell her something whenever the lights flickered. I suspected it was the power company, not the Spirit.
    Thanked by 1tomboysuze
  • The Urbi et Orbi blessing includes an absolution that is similar to the one given after the Confiteor in the EF liturgy (at Mass and Compline):
    ... indulgentiam, absolutionem, et remissionem peccatorum ... tribuat ... omnipotens et misericors Dominus.

    It's not sacramental absolution.

    And yes, there is a plenary indulgence attached to this blessing, with the usual conditions of plenary indulgences. It's available to those who receive the blessing in person or via radio or television. Here's the official text from the Enchiridion Indulgentiarum:
    etsi, rationabili circumstantia, sacris ritibus physice non adfuerit, dummodo ritus ipsos, dum peraguntur, ope instrumenti televisifici vel radiophonici propagatos pia mentis intentione secutus fuerit.

    I think dum peraguntur means you have to be listening/watching a live broadcast. I would hope that instrumenti televisifici does not exclude streaming online video. :-)
    Thanked by 1fvelasco
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    What are the liturgies like in his own cathedral?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS_tcM8cPnM
  • David AndrewDavid Andrew
    Posts: 1,204
    Oh, my.
    Thanked by 1tomboysuze
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    ^ That's a Mass explicitly "for children." I doubt you'd find much better in ANY diocese.
    Thanked by 1ryand
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 891
    I'd better stock up on guitar picks!
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    Lord, have mercy on us.
  • tomboysuzetomboysuze
    Posts: 289
    Thank you, Gavin......this is not my happy place.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Does anyone have an arrangement of the hymn Long Live the Pope?
  • TCJ
    Posts: 966
    I believe the St. Pius X Hymnal has it. Would that be old enough to permit shameless copying?
    Thanked by 1Chris Allen
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,046
    I went right out to roratecoeli and got tizzified. Then I listened to Catholic radio on the way home and got untizzified. He seems good in every aspect but liturgy. The Left is certainly unhinged about him (OMG, he's a CATHOLIC!) If we take as our postulate that Bergoglio is the choice of the Holy Spirit, then it could well be that there are more pressing matters to be dealt with, and he was the guy for that job. We're liturgical musicians, so we think that fixing the music will fix the Mass, and fixing the Mass will fix the Church, because that's the tool we have. It could also be that liturgical reform is on a roll now and doesn't require the active participation of the Pope. Maybe we should just sit, wait, and watch. We might be pleasantly surprised.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    We're liturgical musicians, so we think that fixing the music will fix the Mass, and fixing the Mass will fix the Church, because that's the tool we have.


    When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail?
    Thanked by 1JacobFlaherty
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    Thank you, JQ! That is exactly what I needed to hear! I, too, kind of got my excitement for him ruined thanks to roratecoeli!
    Thanked by 1ContraBombarde
  • RachelR
    Posts: 41
    I wonder if our new Pope was thinking of St. Francis of Assisi's call from our Lord-- "Rebuild My Church."
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    The Left loves him. No less than Andrew Sullivan is jubilant.
  • I can't understand why there seems to be a feeling of a negative tone towards him. We haven't even gotten a chance to see him in action yet, and yet some already have him judged, jury and execution ready. Why not give him a chance to prove himself and let his works speak over time. Benedict XVI has already implemented much change that should stand a good test of time.
  • elaine60elaine60
    Posts: 85
    Totally agree ContraBornbarde.
  • scholistascholista
    Posts: 109
    The words conservative & liberal are political labels not ecclesiastical labels.

    With regard to too orthodox, I agree with Adam Wood: I don't think that's a thing.

    Additionally, although I love the Latin Mass, chant, propers, etc., I want to caution myself and others concerned about the footage of liturgies in Pope Francis' own cathedral. I've lived in Latin America and some of the disparaging comments above have an ethnocentric scent to them. ¡ Cuidado !
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Note: the video which Gavin posted above is labelled "Annual Charismatic Renewal Mass", so that doesn't say much.

    Let's have a look at the Buenos Aires cathedral music department:
    http://capillamusical.wordpress.com/

    It has a "liturgical choir" and a "polyphonic choir".

    This page lists some music programs for particular Sundays:
    http://capillamusical.wordpress.com/agenda-2012/

    And the link list includes... CMAA!

    For a look at the cathedral, check here:
    http://www.catedralbuenosaires.org.ar/
    and click on "Recorridos VIrtual"... and then "Recorrido 360".
  • TCJ
    Posts: 966
    jpal,

    That's exactly why the opposition will never relax!
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    I too note that the above video's are a mass for charismatic renewal and a childrens mass, neither usually the height of gregorian chant, so don't give up all hope. Also having learnt first to believe in god and then to sing with all my heart to him through charismatic renewal, i don't worry. Maybe there will be others like me who after a couple of decades of charismatic renewal ditties got stirred up by the Holy spirit to see what else the church had to offer musically and lo and behold, chant!

    Neither should we worry. Vocations grow where there is true worship of Jesus and many are nurtured by beauty. Just as in the rest of the world, those who produce children eventually outgrow those who don't.

    Anyone else struck by the similarity between his comment on being summoned from the ends of the earth to JPII remarking on the balcomy that he had been summoned from a far country? I am always struck by how hard it must be for them to suddenly find they will never get to go home, so many familiar faces and places they will never get to see again.

    Let's pray for our Pope!
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Not speaking any Spanish, the links to the cathedral didn't mean so much. However, the pictures are nice and the place looks interesting. I do know, from individuals from his country, that Argentina is culturally a European nation in South America. Those who think it backward and unsophisticated, are quite wrong.
  • "Long Live The Pope" is in the St. Gregory Hymnal. Online in PDF, and one of my choir members also made a unison version. We changed the words in vs.3 to "thru out the Earth all voices sing", as the number of voices (Roman Catholics) has grown since its publication. Email if interested in that version.
    It also works with Forest Green and other tunes if you cut the last repeat.