P.S.- It is one of the OCP hymnals and it is geared to my fellow YAs and teens.

It probably has degrees (more or less).

Degrees of heresy

Both matter and form of heresy admit of degrees which find expression in the following technical formula of theology and canon law. Pertinacious adhesion to a doctrine contradictory to a point of faith clearly defined by the Church is heresy pure and simple, heresy in the first degree. But if the doctrine in question has not been expressly "defined" or is not clearly proposed as an article of faith in the ordinary, authorized teaching of the Church, an opinion opposed to it is styled sententia haeresi proxima, that is, an opinion approaching heresy. Next, a doctrinal proposition, without directly contradicting a received dogma, may yet involve logical consequences at variance with revealed truth. Such a proposition is not heretical, it is a propositio theologice erronea, that is, erroneous in theology. Further, the opposition to an article of faith may not be strictly demonstrable, but only reach a certain degree of probability. In that case the doctrine is termed sententia de haeresi suspecta, haeresim sapiens; that is, an opinion suspected, or savouring, of heresy (see THEOLOGICAL CENSURES).

I believe a lot falls into the category of third degree, but wanders into the other three (in degrees, so to speak). Then again, if the publication does not openly profess to be authentically Catholic (such as some from WLP and others) and it has no obligation to carry Catholic thought and theology, then we have no control over its content, only control over whether or not it is allowed in the pews of Catholic Churches. It's quite a problem and similar to the problem with colleges that are Catholic in name but not in practice.

Ban questionable books and teachers/practitioners that espouse them from our buildings and institutions. Pure and simple. It's quite easy to fix the newel post! It just takes courage. (That is a whole 'nother matter however; for more about courage, look up the thread on Bishop Sample.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IcFNiNDb8E

More here:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07256b.htm

"‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"

something can be inappropriate yet not heretical.

Words to live by.

I hear they are not sleeping so well at OCP of late.

Mary, Did You Know - Organ Edition

The correct euphemism for poor guitar skills is: "Strummy Strummy."

I thought it was "capo". :D

Bad poetry and just plain goofy.

Here's the music video by CCM group "Third Day":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRU1438pzzE

This song is not appropriate for use in the Mass, for several reasons:

(a) it is in a secular style of pop music -- entertainment music designed for dancing. This song was designed for performance in concerts, not for church. It has no relation to the Mass. There's no logical place to use it in the Mass. If you did, it would become a huge interruption, taking over the event instead of serving the sacred liturgy.

(b) it uses irregular rhythms -- there is no way a general congregation can sing this **together**

(c) it's more about "me" and "I" than about God.

(d) Its theological meaning is unclear, and perhaps problematic. It speaks of "trading" one's sickness and pain to God in exchange for joy. This does not respect the value of Christian suffering, in which one finds joy and practices charity in the midst of our sufferings. There are certain types of Protestant theology with a distorted approach to suffering, and perhaps this song reflects some of that influence.

Incidentally, there is criticism of this song even from some Evangelicals for its theological unclarity and also for its repetitive emptiness. A net search for "trading my sorrows theology" may bring such discussions up.

Well, to me, that's just a matter of accuracy: heresy (in Catholic morality and canon law) consists of denying or obstinately doubting one or more dogmas: i.e., truths which the Church presents to the faithful as divine revelation.

Not just any doctrinal incoherence is enough to qualify for the word "heresy".

"If the pieces that you add to the Mass have music more appealing than the music of the Mass itself, *something is wrong*. Such a situation makes the Mass look boring by comparison.

Is this a sensible rule?"

I don't think so.

My full reply would be long and an entirely different topic altogether. Although I would temper your rule that maybe the music at Mass ought to have its appeal be the degree to which it IS part of the Mass. For example, florid Graduals or a well-chosen motet. These express the mystery being celebrated, and while the Mass is added to by the beauty of the music, the beauty being experienced is just the beauty of the Mass.

One might conceive of it like an illuminated manuscript. Insofar as the illumination brings the text to life, it is beneficial. If it sends a different message than the text, the illumination is only harmful.

@teachermom24, now that was probably one of the most profound statements I have heard in long while!

1. I missed something. Who is suggesting Latin?

2. I used to be the music director for a campus ministry. One year I had the guys in the "contemporary" choir learn the In paradisum for All Souls' Day. Didn't make a big deal out of it, just had them get up and sing it (and sing it well) at the end of communion. Not only did they love learning it, but it was so well-received and many students were begging for more. I think it was, for many of them, their first exposure to any Gregorian chant besides Agnus XVIII. (And those choir guys never could get enough Latin after that.)

Why would young adults be averse to music with Latin texts? I'm a young adult who loves it.

And if I may interject an anecdote, the only time I've ever heard someone object to singing Latin was a baby-boomer coming out of a discussion group on the new translation. Her problem? We sang the Gloria in Latin. Just the first line of it as a refrain mind you, the rest of it in English. Get that? One line which every English-speaking Christian on the planet should know from singing "Angels We Have Heard on High" at Christmas was somehow a harbinger of the destruction of the Church. :)

Well, be very careful with "Angels We Have Heard on High". I once inadvertently annoyed a Methodist parishioner by using the popish pronunciation of excelsis.

The Methodists use excel, Sis, but the Catholics use egg shells, is.

I once inadvertently annoyed a Methodist

and who hasn't, really?

I once inadvertently annoyed a Methodist
...
and who hasn't, really?

I've never inadvertently annoyed a Methodist. I am very deliberate in my annoyances.

Methodists use excel

I've been trying to get Episcopalians to switch to Google Docs.

Then I figure at the Vatican they have just upgraded to Lotus 1-2-3.

CHG, I tend to agree on the Methodists. I have found common ground with them on many Catholic beliefs.

My mother was Methodist. Consequently, I do understand them well.

I constantly "annoy" Catholics. (Maybe the better way to say it is to "challenge" them to live their own faith)

What they don't realize is that the teens and young adults don't like it anyway because it is still "church music," regardless of the style.

Yes, we tend to treat teens like they have no powers of discernment which is nonsense because they can spot pandering from a mile away.

[I changed the title to conform more closely to this part of the forum etiquette guidelines:]

Members may not level insinuations of heresy, bad faith, or criminality against members; members should also avoid such inflammatory language against non-members.