Twentieth Century Beauty
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    Several years ago, a friend in Philadelphia was complaining about the fact that the Philadelphia Orchestra was going to devote an entire year to 20th century music, and he was going to boycott it, because he hated "modern" music! When some of us started to point out specific examples of things that he DID like from the 20th century, though, his attitude softened and he eventually relented.

    So, my point for this thread is: what piece, written in the 20th Century, would you select as Sacred Music which exemplifies beauty? I would like to know more about 'recent' works for my own continuing edification.

    Here's my starters (Links highly recommended):

    Durufle Requiem (1947) Introit and Kyrie

    Lauridsen O Magnum Mysterium (1994)
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Hi Greg, things okay at the coast?
    The 20c musically was just as messed up as the chronology of its politicalsocialanthropologicaleconomicscientificetal counterpart. So, you kinda have to take that into account, tho' I'd exempt serialism so's Francis won't go into card-arrest.
    It doesn't fly in church, but igor's SYMPHONY OF PSALMS pops up as representative of the span quite well. Subset with PATER NOSTER, AVE MARIA.
    OTOH- if you discount the string quartetorchestra origin, my vote would go to Barber "Agnus Dei."
    Thanked by 2tomboysuze CHGiffen
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    Arvo Part, Jean Langlais, Jehan Alain, Charles Tournemire
    Thanked by 1gregp
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    i am with melo... barber.
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Kevin Allen. All of his stuff is great, but here's one of my favs:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykqr1awLxIY#t=19s
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    Marajoy, can you give some examples?
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    Ben, I think he might have missed the cutoff - was this from the 21st century? That will be another thread. ;-)
  • Rachmaninoff's setting of the All-Night Vigil. All of it, but especially the Canticle of Simeon.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEHufcT3jmw
  • I really like Ola Gjeilo's music, although this is 21st century not 20th. The piece below is his setting of Ubi Caritas
    http://youtu.be/zvI5sNucz1w

    I also like the things already mentioned (i.e. Durufle, Rachmaninoff, Lauridsen). I went to undergrad at a Wesleyan college where I was introduced to a lot of Randall Thompson's music which is very beautiful. Below are his Alleluia and Last Words of David. Additionally he has a set of pieces entitled "The Peaceable Kingdom" which I enjoy.
    http://youtu.be/2iCwCTv8heA
    http://youtu.be/ssOihxIYhdg

    Again, more recently, Eric Whitacre has just published his own setting of Alleluia which is very nice.
    http://youtu.be/Rak_rJLG49k
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    Ligeti Requiem. Did Crumb write any sacred music, too? I rather like Crumb.

    It's unfortunate that Greg's friend is so closed-minded. Classical music isn't about pretty sounds, it's about an encounter with great art. Just because you don't immediately understand it doesn't diminish its greatness.
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    examples... hmm... (ugh, too much work...)
    Part: Beatitudes (also, there was a thread about him on here recently, with other good suggestions)
    Langlais: Ave Maria Ave Maris Stella, Acclamations & Improvisation from Suite Medievale
    Alain: Postlude pour l'office de Complies, Litanies
    Tournemire: Hard to think of anything in particular. I'm mostly familiar with a few tiny (rather obscure) movements from his L'Orgue Mystique. They're fabulous especially in the context of what they were meant for - Mass.

    There's lots more (and those aren't necessarily the "best" of each composer)... those are just the few off the top of my head that I'm more familiar with.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Durufle's Ubi Caritas

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=457nVpxJDkA

    -------

    Clearly your friend isn't talking about "Music written from 1901-2000" when he says he doesn't like "20th Century Music." He's referring to a set of styles, not to a time period.

    Within the time period, there is plenty of music that is fantastic and even popular: Copland, Holst, Bernstein, Orff. It wasn't all twelve-tone and vacuum cleaners.

    So then, a more interesting question might be- what music specifically in a 20th-Century style is beautiful and worthy?

    Along with several things mentioned about, I would drive to hear a live performance of Schoenberg's Pierrot lunaire. I've heard it twice, and was completely devastated both times.
    Thanked by 2Gavin CHGiffen
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    @Gregp
    I stand corrected :) I was just thinking new music...

    Holst's "The Planets" is another great piece.
    Thanked by 1tomboysuze
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    @Gavin- you can be such a young-fogey, I love it! Crumb, sacred music! (I loved Crumb back when I did his stuff in the 70's, love Georgy too!)
    @Ben- to paraphrase Maurice Sendak- "O the sounds you'll hear!"
    @Greg- I kind of agree with Gavin's disguised wariness-beauty contests are just that. Anybody's "Ubi caritas" cannot bear constant repetition, the grooves (pardon pun) will widen and wear out with compulsive auto replay. Pretty soon you won't be able to tell the difference between Miss Durufle, Miss Faure or Miss Hurd. (And they'll be grateful when you let them slip off their heels backstage!)
    Whether the form of music is symphonic, sacred, jazz (true jazz) or pop, such lazy thinking (wow, I'm gonna boycott the TWENTIETH CENTURY!) is about as cogent as saying street corner doo wop is the summation of vocal music. And then to ask for an American Idol panel of "experts" to point the way to "truly beautiful" music is a recipe for cultural disaster and limbo.
    Thus endeth the rant/lesson.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    What also annoys me is that I couldn't think of a great "contemporary" work (truly contemporary, not aping classic styles with modal or add2 chords) that was written in my lifetime (80s or later).
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Well, maybe Gorecki Third.
  • Mark P.
    Posts: 248
    Poulenc's Vinea mea electa
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0kwNhNcJnA
    Thanked by 2BruceL Paul_D
  • Ives psalms, Nielsen 3 motets, any number of things from the English choral tradition, some of Distler, Gorecki's sacred music (though it moves a bit slowly for my clock), Stravinsky's Requiem Canticles. I think the Domenico Bartolucci Crux Fidelis is stunning (don't know his other music). The 21st c. is shaping up to be stronger for sacred music.
  • Love, love the Barber - love Durufle and really like/love Leo Nestor's setting of just about anything. But I must disclose that I've studied with him and sung under his direction a lot.

    Recordings of his stuff are hard to find, I wish I could post, but not much out there on the fly...
    I particularly like his "Come Ye Sinners Poor and Needy" and he just wrote a commissioned piece that - I confess - I was in his chamber choir when he premiered it:
    This is the Hour of Banquet and of Song. http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/title/This-Is-the-Hour-of-Banquet-and-of-Song/19844055

    Also, there are many good composers on this forum: Charles Giffen, Paul O., Francis K., Andrew M., etc. etc. As a matter of fact, I've been fortunate to use work by all of these generous composers.

    AND, I also like Richard Rice's settings/compositions, Kevin Allen, and a host of others - I use their work every week just about.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen R J Stove
  • Nobody has mentioned Marcel Dupré's organ music, or his choral music, which is less famous than his organ material but is still admirable. Here's a survey of it:

    http://www.vasarisingers.org/dupre-choral-works/
  • Mark P.
    Posts: 248
    Dupre's Ave verum is particularly beautiful.
    Thanked by 1R J Stove
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,148
    Within the time period, there is plenty of music that is fantastic and even popular: Copland, Holst, Bernstein, Orff. It wasn't all twelve-tone and vacuum cleaners.

    So then, a more interesting question might be- what music specifically in a 20th-Century style is beautiful and worthy?

    I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Krzysztof Penderecki (b. 1933). Penderecki's international recognition began in 1959 with the premieres of the works Strophen, Psalms of David, and Emanations, at the Warsaw Autumn (II Warsaw Competition of Young Polish Composers of the Composers' Union), winning the top three prizes. His Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima, for 52 string instruments, made him instantly famous, winning the 1961 UNESCO prize.

    Composed from 1963-1966 and given its first performance on March 30, 1966 at the Cathedral (Dom) in Münster (commemorating the 700th anniversary of its building, as well as coinciding with the 1,000th anniversary of the introduction of Christianity into Poland), Penderecki's St. Luke Passion is a work of monumental proportions and intensity. It is almost entirely atonal, except for two major triads: once at the end of the Stabat Mater (D major), a cappella, and once at the very end of the work (E major) with full choruses, orchestra and organ. It makes use of tone clusters, twelve-tone serialism, and utilizes the B-A-C-H motive, and the chorus makes use of many extended techniques, including shouting, speaking, giggling and hissing. Yet the work reflects and even pays homage to the style of Passion writing of Bach. Despite its use of atonality and avant-garde techniques, the musical public immediately embraced the work's stark power and direct emotional impact.

    St. Luke Passion (review).

    Complete performance of the St. Luke Passion (74 minutes):
    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/10555810

    Beginning in the early to mid 1970s, Penderecki's compositional styles changed to more conventional (for him) styles, and his works had less of the avant-garde and serialism aspects prevalent in his earlier works.

    Documentary: St Luke Passion in Canterbury Cathedral, May 2nd 2009, performance conducted by Penderecki.
    http://vimeo.com/5391056

    YouTube Videos for Major works:

    Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima (1960)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HilGthRhwP8

    Polymorphia for 48 stringed instruments (1961)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ADRsVpk0JE

    Stabat Mater (1962, also included in the St. Luke Passion)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f403XsOAFXE

    Miserere (St. Luke Passion, 1966)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKhw0Q5Exc

    In pulverem mortis (St. Luke Passion, 1966)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmP-otPTBhw

    De Natura Sonoris (1966)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w38Io51YesQ

    Sicut locus est (Magnificat)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYGsW58nC0E

    Agnus Dei (Polish Requiem)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OD12l9FAIU

    Song of the Cherubim (1986)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfHdnGRkvhk

    Veni Creator (1987)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvYO1yVuKgo

    Benedicamus Domino (1992)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycUGbj5JG2I

  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    Wow, thanks for all those, Charles! My wife and I had the opportunity to go to the World premiere run of his opera "Paradise Lost" at the Lyric Opera of Chicago in 1978. I have to admit I was not impressed then, but I was young and foolish, so this is a great change to listen again and see what I've missed.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    CHG

    I totally forgot about the Penderecki Requiem. I think because his music is generally not too accessible by most choirs, he often is not thought about. I don't particularly care for a lot of the atonal aspects of his repertoire where it ventures into chaos and a sense of totally being lost, but his AD is particularly bone chilling as it rides on the very edge of the atonal syndrome and wanders back and forth from tonality to atonality. He really connected with the muse at 4:45 in that piece. Nice performance... excellent straight tone singing in the one you posted above. Thnx.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Poulenc 'Ave Verum'
    Lennox Berkeley (Friend of Britten and Poulenc, and Nadia Boulanger) : Mass for Four Voices; Mass for Five Voices.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    gregp

    Here is my very strong opinion about Penderecki.

    I don't think you were young and foolish. I think (in your) youth doesn't put up with that which doesn't connect or make sense or is plastic, and a lot of that music just doesn't connect. It has its moments when it does, and they are great moments, but I find it very disjointed in being authentic, and then having that plastic or showy just for the sake of doing harmonic acrobatics or having a shock value, if you know what I mean. If you wander into that realm, you have to be very careful, because it just becomes a compositional architectural mess real fast and you lose people. I would dare say most of his music loses people. He has brilliancy and genius, but it gets muddled with ego.

    Now to backtrack a little, I think the compositions Charles has posted above are less like some of that than more, so these seem to be more 'authentic' if you know what I mean. The Threnody piece is more what I am talking about when I say 'plastic'. Perhaps what I mean is that it is more like being IN the bomb zone instead of honoring the dead. I kinda feel like I am reliving the horror of a bomb zone when I listen to that one. How does 'sound-sculpted-fear' do for a description? To me, that is the opposite of sacred music.
    Thanked by 2gregp CHGiffen
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Well, the Threenody isn't intended to be Sacred Music in the sense of it being used within the context of liturgy- it is a concert piece and should be examined from that standpoint.

    I have two problems with "20th Century Music" (by which I mean, the specific cluster of genres, not the period of time).

    1) The philosophical questions about music are not very interesting and do not lead to interesting art.
    Whether you're talking about timed silence or vacuum cleaners or stop-watch-conducted whispering, it isn't relevant (to me) that the piece "asks fundamental questions about the nature of music" or any other mumbo-jumbo along those lines. When the form IS the content, I stop caring, because a written description of the music becomes just as useful to the philosophical discussion as the experience of hearing or performing it.

    So, that pretty much leaves me out of wanting to have anything to do with aleatoric music, or any of the "compositions" in the Cage school.

    2) The philosophy underpinning much 20th C. Music is terrifying, and I want no part of it.
    While point (1) deals with all the "is that really music" BS, point (2) is about the music that clearly is music, but which is downright terrifying in its artistic/philosophical implications. Since music is hard to talk about, I'll talk about theatre.
    There is no question about whether Caligula (Camus) or Waiting for Godot (Becket) are legitimate plays in even a conventional sense. But the philosophy they portray, the world view they illuminate, is both false and terrifying. Because I like art and theatre, and have an interest in philosophy, I might go see a production of either one (if I knew it was going to be good), but I almost certainly wouldn't program them if I were a theatre's Artistic Director, and I would be somewhat wary about exposing my children to either one. As an angsty teenager, I found 20th C. theatre - Artaud, Camus, Beckett, Schaffer - to be... philosophically alluring in a way that today I might characterize as malevolent, possibly even diabolical.
    I mentioned Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunnaire above. That's a perfect example in music. Terrifying really is about the only word to describe it. As a work of art is absolutely amazing. But it is also, in my opinion, dangerous. I'm glad I discovered it in college, and not when I was an angsty teenager.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I wasn't familiar with Penderecki aside from the Threnody, so I'm grateful to Charles for posting those pieces!

    A big problem with this thread is that "20th century" is a time, not a style or genre. There is no such thing as "20th century music" except as a descriptor of when a piece was written, which tells us nothing. We can discuss the avant-garde, the aleatoric, the neo-classic, neo romantic, neo-neo-classic, minimalism, etc. (Romanticism was still around, too.) And some people may have opinions (which are like...) about each style. But to make a statement about all music from the 20th century is silly.
  • I may have overlooked them, but am surprised that Howells, Britten & V-W are not listed. Also the Poulenc motets. And such contemporaries as Whitacre & cet., plus quite a few Britons currently crafting outstanding sacred choral music.
    As an aside, I typically get bright-eyed nods of approval from fellow musicians when I point out that there is a vast difference between so-called 'contemporary music' and modern music.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen R J Stove
  • Steve QSteve Q
    Posts: 119
    I am a fan of John Rutter, particularly his Requiem.

    Pie Jesu
  • Benjamin Britten's "A Hymn to the Virgin"
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • Spriggo
    Posts: 122
    Howells' "Requiem"
    Thanked by 1R J Stove
  • TCJ
    Posts: 966
    I'm not really familiar with a lot of modern sacred music (or a lot of ancient, for that matter) since I've not really had a chance to do much of it, but I do like Biebl's Ave Maria.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVyCJlPiHFg

  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Another one of my favorites there!
  • I do recognize the beauty of the Biebl, but while it blew me away the first time I heard it, the more it's been done, the more tedious it gets for me because of the repetition. Don't know why this affects me in this piece more than others that repeat, but I guess I sigh inwardly after the first Ave Maria as I realize there are two more just like it to get through...but if it's exquisitely sung, I'll endure it. I guess it just has to keep getting better to hold my interest! :)
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I do recognize the beauty of the Biebl, but while it blew me away the first time I heard it, the more it's been done, the more tedious it gets for me because of the repetition.


    I've heard it trimmed down a little, and tend to prefer it this way...
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • Arvo Part, hands down.

    His "Adam's Lament" (2011) is one of the greatest works I've heard in a long time -- highly recommend the ECM recording, which has some delightful other pieces on it.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Sir John Tavener's The Lamb

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjcQklxr76U

    From Wikipedia:
    One of Tavener's most popular and frequently performed works is his short unaccompanied four-part choral setting of William Blake's The Lamb, written for his nephew Simon on his third birthday one afternoon in 1982.
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • Chris HebardChris Hebard
    Posts: 124
    Arvo Part, yes: Passio, and Kanon Pokajanen.
  • The best thing about 20th Century music is that the period covers nearly everything which Vaughan Williams wrote.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Adam Wood
  • MHIMHI
    Posts: 324
    .
  • In two weeks, for the 11th Sunday of the Year C, would be a perfect time to sing Arvo Part's "Woman with the alabaster box." Because I couldn't afford it this year, we are singing Luca Marenzio's setting, thanks again to CPDL.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    A British classic is Colin Mawby's Ave verum corpus. It was sung at the installation of Michael Barber as Bishop of Oakland for the communion motet, as as far as I could tell sung beautifully. It was hard to tell, though, for as soon as the communion began, the announcer launched into a description of the architecture of the new cathedral, something that was not particularly relevant to the communion, as well as blocking out a beautiful performance.