should people in the procession sing?
  • lmassery
    Posts: 404
    At my church there are many people in the entrance procession - lots of EMs, lectors, RCIA people etc. They all carry hymnals or worship aids and try to sing the entrance hymn. It always seems awkward to me that they are all walking with their noses in a book and mostly not singing or losing their place. Does this happen frequently in any of your churches? What should they be doing?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,933
    I think it is fairly common practice. What they will do, whether they should or not, is exactly as they please.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,366
    Yes, they should be singing!
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen Gavin noel jones, aago
  • Bobby Bolin
    Posts: 417
    Having been to your church (probably not paying as much attention as I should...) I have never noticed anything strange-looking in the entrance procession. I think if they want to sing it's their choice.
  • Jeffrey TuckerJeffrey Tucker
    Posts: 3,624
    I'm puzzled by these responses. The entrance procession song in the Roman Rite is the Introit in the Graduale Romanum. It is sung by the schola, which itself is not procession. Everyone else should be either procession or watching the procession, not carrying books and singing some other hymn. This is what Mahrt calls the paradigm. This is the core structure of the ritual. Yes, other things can happen (hymns following or preceding the introit) but we do well to recall the foundational structure of liturgical action and the role of music in it.
    Thanked by 5Mark M. donr JacobFlaherty CHGiffen Jahaza
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,933
    Why are you puzzled? I agree, in principle, with what you say. However, Mahrt doesn't sign any of our paychecks. The hymns are there, mandated by pastors, and are what many of us deal with for now. The ONLY way I can use an Introit is as a prelude, not as a processional.
    Thanked by 3Spriggo marajoy Gavin
  • jpal
    Posts: 365
    If they walk as fast as our priests, I'm pretty sure singing at the same time would be disastrous.
    Thanked by 2Gavin Chris Allen
  • TCJ
    Posts: 966
    If they walk as fast as our priests, I'm pretty sure singing at the same time would be disastrous.


    Same here. I'm fairly positive that the priest here is always at the altar by the time the first phrase is done in the entrance hymn.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    I have no idea what happened at my church Sunday, but for some reason the procession hadn't reached the altar by the end of the 5th verse of On Jordan's Bank at one Mass.
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    I agree with Jeff Tucker at the level that, If the entrance antiphon were sung they could easily sing the refrain from memory and not need a book.

    I also feel the pain of CharlesW. because many parishes are forced to sing the entrance from their hymnal. I would suggest finding an entrance hymn that everyone knows very well so they won't need their books.
  • JacobFlahertyJacobFlaherty
    Posts: 328
    While I agree with Mr. Tucker, I also realize that being idealistic is almost certain death. I'm hanging on by a thread, folks, because I did what I thought I should, even while being charitable, and am getting hung out to dry because of it. (Everyone was supportive until they got negative feedback from the parish council around 9 months into my tenure - that has been the beginning of what I'm sensing is the inevitable end.) But I digress...

    So we must do hymns in many of our churches. I still do insist on the sung Introit after the hymn, which has been begrudgingly accepted. But why your church has so many people in a procession for an everyday-Sunday is strange to me, and very 1980's. How old is the pastor? They shouldn't even be in procession, I believe.

    Again, don't get me wrong, Mr. Tucker, I agree with you whole-heartedly, and who cares if I didn't? I'd be wrong, according to the objective laws of the Church. But when our bosses don't follow those laws and simply make up whatever they feel like, how do we win? Onward, Christian Soldiers...
    Thanked by 1donr
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,933
    I remember when those processions became the thing to do after Vatican II. They were never like the grand processions in European cathedrals, which may have been what the reformers had in mind. In my area, they were often a couple of altar servers carrying a candle and a crucifix held at a precarious angle, followed by a tired looking priest. Nothing grand about it. Most American churches are far shorter than their European counterparts, so the processions tend to be rather short. The concept is fine, but the execution often doesn't work out. The priest gets to the chair and the entrance rite begins. I think we would be better off without those processions except for special celebrations and solemnities.

    JIF, it seems you have discovered something I learned long ago. It is easier to replace musicians than to replace hymns with anything else. Hymns have been in use for nearly 50 years and are entrenched. I really don't see them going away anytime soon.
    Thanked by 1Spriggo
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Jeffrey Tucker's right.

    The "entrance procession" has become bastardized right along with the wedding procession - both turned into Hollywood productions, turning something merely practical into another meaningless act of "participation of the people."

    Pre-1970 the intent was to get the priest on the altar and Mass begun quickly and efficiently so that they could get the people in and out of the parking lot between multiple Masses. There was NO homily at daily Masses, since people had to get on to work or school for the rest of the day.

    At all but the Sunday High Mass the priest stepped from the sacristy to the altar, a matter of a few feet.

    When you attended Sunday High Mass you expected it to last longer. Otherwise you went to a different Mass. Here you got Chant, Incense...at the other Masses you didn't and got out earlier.

    Of course, then you knew if you missed Mass you were going to Hell. Are Masses with active participation a glimpse of.....?







  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,148
    Why not partake of both worlds - hymn & introit - and give the Hymn Tune Introits for Advent a try. They are also available for Christmas through Baptism.
  • PeterBPeterB
    Posts: 6
    We have been using the SEP for Offertory for a year and a half now. With the incorporation of polyphonic verses, the choir, and even the congregation, is beginning to appreciate them more. During Lent, we sneak in the Communion Propers, too, in place of a hymn. By explaining that Lent should be a more reserved time reflecting on the Passion of our Lord, and also limiting accompaniment in the music in general, it tends to placate those who would normally object to such a measure. I've had some tell me they appreciate not feeling pressured to sing at Communion! But alas, they are few and far between.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Why....do Protestants not sing propers....and why do we instead, sing their music?

    Has singing hymns at Mass increased devotion and participation or instead left more people standing their mute, not participating?

    People no longer sing the National Anthem but listen to Baseball Cantors.

    Can we, please, not take notice?
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