St. Basil Hymnal (1958) Accompaniment
  • Does anyone have the accompaniment edition to the New St. Basil Hymnal from 1958? I can't seem to find one for under $50 anywhere, and I only need accompaniment for one item, so I'd be much obliged if anyone can scan it and send it to me.
  • What item do you need?
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    Wonderful hymnal.
  • I was hoping for a scan of Willan's Mass of St. Theresa. Would you consider sending it to me?
  • Ooh, me too.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,937
    I have the 1958 hymnal for 4 voices which has an organ accompaniment. If you don't get it from someone else, let me know and I will scan it for you.
    Thanked by 1E_A_Fulhorst
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,937
    That hymnal was for sale for years from the Mother of Our Savior Company. I don't know if they still offer it, but they have an online catalog.
  • Here is Willan's Mass
  • Thanks, Rob!
  • Willan's St. Theresa Mass is so simple and beautiful, IMHO. Should be more widely used!
  • Comments removed, deemed inappropriate by the writer.
    Thanked by 1E_A_Fulhorst
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,937
    The actual date of the mass is not given in the New Saint Basil. It says "used by permisson of the copyright owners, The Frederick Harris Music Company, Limited, Oakville." I actually own a copy of the hymnal, so I can use it. I don't know about anyone else.
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  • I checked and the Hymnal copyright date is 1958 in the US and it was not renewed therefore the contents of the hymnal is now in the public domain.
    Thanked by 1E_A_Fulhorst
  • JennyH
    Posts: 106
    Unless this was composed and copyrighted before 1927, this is, unfortunately, a violation of copyright in the US.

    This is an incorrect statement. OrganistRob320 has the correct information.
  • The Mass of St Theresa was published in 1930 by Frederick Harris, Canada. It was a mass setting intended for convents.

    I love this mass. Our congregation loves the KYRIE. F.R.C. Clarke aptly describes the SANCTUS as having a "carol-like" quality. The introductory threefold "Sanctus" is quite dramatic.
  • No, the copyright on the work itself is the issue. Willan granted permission to the publisher to print the music. But if you go to a major hymnal today and look in the back you will list upon list of copyrights. Publishers were lax in listing this information until recent years, but the law still applied.

    IF Willan wrote that piece for that hymnal and never copyrighted it himself, than JennyH is right and I am wrong.

    The "Mass in Honor of St Theresa" by Healey Willan. It was commissioned by the "New Saint Basil Hymnal" in 1958. Unison mass with organ.

    But relying upon the copyright of the hymnal is not sufficient protection for your church. There has been one major copyright infringement suit that involved music of WIllan filed.

    Willan could have copyrighted it himself even if he did it as a work for hire for the hymnal.

    It may not be in the US copyright files, but in the Canadian Copyright.

    IF the copyright date on the hymnal was pre-1927 that would prove that the Willan was written before the 1927 date and not be a problem.

    The Mass of St Theresa was published in 1930 by Frederick Harris, Canada.

    Based upon this useful information, it would appear to still be copyright protected unless Willan copyrighted it himself before 1927. That would override the 1958 and 1930 dates.

    If it was published without copyright prior to 1927 that would also eliminate Willan's right to copyright it at a later date. The copyright of the hymnals would not copyright the Mass.

    Willan's family is VERY protective of his legacy.

    Don't blame me, blame Sonny Bono.

    The status of this work needs to be checked, the Canons might help:

    http://www.canons-regular.org/go/healeywillansociety/
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  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    >>It would seem that this was "not nice" of him until you know that:
    >>All the money, not a lot, that comes in is used to help fund seminarians study for the priesthood.

    What one does with their money does not affect the morality of how it was earned. Enforcing copyright is either moral and just, or it isn't. The use to which someone puts their money is a second moral question, not a component of the first.
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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,937
    Banks are evil. Sometimes, relatives are, too. ;-)
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,152
    U.S. Copyright law is what it is, and today it is much better defined and understood than it was in the past. It exists to protect intellectual property rights of the copyright holder. Contrary to what many might believe, it does not exist to line the pockets of lawyers and agents hired or entrusted with maintaining these rights.

    There are now online databases for checking on such things as old copyrights and copyright renewals. Only yesterday, I checked to verify whether a copyright on a lovely sacred choral work originally copyright in 1934 had been properly renewed in 1962 (to make it still under copyright); unfortunately (from my perspective), the copyright had indeed been renewed, and the mistaken assumption by someone that the work was in the public domain because of the original copyright date of 1934 made the work ineligible for publication. That I, myself, could check on the copyright status of this work within a day of learning of the questionable copyright status is something that would have been impossible not so long ago.

    I do not understand the question of morality of enforcing copyright by individuals or their heirs, estates, or publishers to whom works are properly assigned. There might and indeed could be a question of morality or ethics when an organization elects to copyright material, jealously guard the material andprofit from it, when that organization espouses a charitable, moral, or public service description of itself that would seem to be contradicted by such copyright shenanigans.

    Morality issues aside, enforcing copyright law is legal, even when it might seem unjust. On the other hand, government (federal, state, or local) enforcing or not electing to enforce laws – such as immigration laws, right to life laws, same sex marriage laws, and the like – often raises questions both of morality and justness. Copyright law just doesn't fit this situation.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    The morality or immorality of copyright may be a debatable point in the abstract, but our opinions/judgement on the matter are only relevant to our own work, not to the works of others.

    Copyright is legally enforceable, it does get enforced, and exposing our parishes to the very real possibility of litigation and damages is immoral.
  • gwt1969gwt1969
    Posts: 1
    Hi Rob! Would you kindly send the Willan to me as well??
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  • JennyH
    Posts: 106
    Frogman Noel Jones said: You are aware that until this matter of copyright is determined that you are putting yourself, musica sacra and your church up for possible litigation and fines by asking someone to give you music that may be copyright protected?

    I know you are only kidding, but really: please cut it out. Your statement has no basis in fact.

    Those who own copyrights can defend themselves. They don't need bullies on internet forums.

    As a former law student, I can tell you: the first step would be a "cease and desist" letter (which would never, never happen over a case like this).

    The notion that somehow musica sacra could in any way be harmed over private people E-mailing themselves is bogus. I assume you're trying to be funny? Yes? No?

    For more, please read this: http://www.copyright.gov/
    Thanked by 1Gavin
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  • JennyH
    Posts: 106
    Two items may be of help:

    1. The case you cite (above) has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

    2. There is no need to keep double, triple, and quadruple posting.

    Please just hit "edit" and you can add on to your previous comment. Thanks!
    Thanked by 1E_A_Fulhorst
  • Most of Willan's music was under copyright by his heirs. Most of it is/was under control of his daughter Mary Willan Mason who lives near Toronto.
  • The mass was not commissioned by the St Basil Hymnal. For this hymnal, however, Willan made several harmonizations of hymns.

    A wonderful reference for all things Willan is the book "Healey Willan Life and Music" written by one of his former students, F.R.C. Clarke 1983 University of Toronto Press

  • Copyright is legally enforceable, it does get enforced, and exposing our parishes to the very real possibility of litigation and damages is immoral.


    For that matter, the state has the legal authority to write copyright law. So disobeying these just laws is itself sinful.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,161
    As for the morality of copyright, it is debatable whether this or that particular copyright law is just. However, for now we are stuck with the laws we have.

    As Noel posted above, the place to go for information on works of Willan is the Willan Society. The family has transferred their rights to the Canons Regular of St. John Cantius, and CMAA friend Fr. Scott Haynes, SJC, is director of the Society.
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    Thank you, RC, i thought the CRoStJC connection was common knowledge.
    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)