They have to keep it a secret, because if people found out, then someone would know, and then it wouldn't be a secret anymore.

I'll leave those ads open to comment so that the persons posting them can add the information. One didn't even give an e-mail address.

If there's no response, I could add geographical information based on the IP address. :-)

In the tech field where I come from, blind ads are disreputable. Some players use them to gather resumes for future reference with no intention of using them immediately. Once received by the anonymous advertiser, they might circulate elsewhere -- even back to one's current employer.

If a pastor is so distressed by a current music director that he wants to remove him quickly, he has alternatives: (a) give the incumbent notice and pay him/her extra to stay on for a few weeks; (b) fire him/her immediately and hire substitutes (call the local AGO for candidates).

And if the pastor is carrying out a secret operation to replace the MD, a fair number of musicians would not want to cooperate with such a maneuver, and would not want to apply.

I wasn't necessarily directing it at the recent posters. It's just a common annoyance. I think Mara has a FANTASTIC suggestion to have a suggested template - no need to enforce it, but just make it available. Parish name, job title, time requirements, contact info. I'm just surprised whenever people forget something like that!

"if the pastor is carrying out a secret operation to replace the MD, a fair number of musicians would not want to cooperate with such a maneuver, and would not want to apply."

AGREE COMPLETELY. I applied for one job in Detroit (and I'm happy to name names) that had been advertised for over a month. I dropped by the church after Mass to speak to the priest, and had this conversation with the first person I saw:

Me: "Excuse me, I'm looking for Fr. Rob."
Guy: "He's back in the rectory by now. Can I help you with anything?"
Me: "Yes, I'm interested in talking to him about the music director position."
Guy: "Where did you hear about it?
Me: "It's advertised at school. Why?"
Guy: "I'm the music director. I only gave notice a week ago."
Me: "I first saw it advertised two months ago."
Guy: "........"

All this animosity and distrust is fueled by the inCREDible amount of difficulty in communicating about music. Even amongst ourselves, it's tough to clearly reason about music, or put things into words. A priest who does not have musical training can't possibly express his expectations. A music director can't possibly explain his/her rationale for decisions. It's so painfully difficult.

I don't think I'm really deflecting these issues. Reasonable HR happens when there is trust, and trust happens when there is communication. Since DMs speak both human and music, I think the burden is on us to make the communication happen.

The topic of human resources management is one of the great "taboo" subjects in the contemporary priesthood. In my 30 years of working in Holy Mother Church and having worked for 12 different pastors, I think with some certainty I had one that had any skills in communications and HR. When I taught for a while at a seminary, I hounded the rector to get the guys a class in parish management and communications. But the rector's response was that "they learn that when they are sent out as deacons and young priests working for pastors." Yep, the stupid leading the blind.

There are some who understand the business of managing staffs and personalities, but by and large, most are incompetent. I say that lovingly because many of that 12 are good friends and the rest...well, that is another story. And this is not priest-bashing. I "understand" this problem and and in many cases have learned to work with it. And I truly love many of the priests I live and work with. I just wish they had been given skills in this area. And I am one who believes some of this can be "taught."

C'est la vie.

I'm not really following you, Kathy. Somewhere we went from a priest's inability to write a good job ad (nay, a basic job ad that gives fundamental details like a parish name or e-mail address) to his inability to talk about music? What's the connection?

I'm just saying, for every group of musicians sitting around saying "Priests are terrible at HR," there's a group of priests sitting around saying "Musicians are such difficult staffers." One of the reasons is, unlike with RCIA directors or CCD directors or secretaries, priests usually do not speak our language. I don't think this is a unique situation. In a manufacturing company, if a middle manager who is not an engineer has the responsibility for supervising engineers, there will be a disconnect in terms of understanding. The engineer will have to be proactive in "translating" his/her job description in terms the boss will understand. It's kind of a pain.

I am sorry but this is not about speaking "music." This is about communications and good procedure for defining jobs, talking about expectations and proper HR for working with staffs. An example: my pastor (not my current boss) heard from another priest that I was looking for another job. Without asking me, he advertised my position. He neither asked me and nor anyone else but I saw my job in the diocesan newspaper. After I saw this, I threw myself into his office and asked. His reply " I heard a rumor." It was just that: a rumor not authenticated.
My point: you check these things out. The priest was afraid to deal in reality.

We all need management skills, better communication skills about many things and the willingness to learn about managing people, a skill that is taught, discussed and developed in many places in many ways. Procedures are like improvisation: the rules free you to go where you want. You know the boundaries.

I no longer excuse priests: I try to help them see that that procedures are there to support them and free them to do what they need.

Et voila!!!!

Kevin,

I think we're saying pretty much the same thing. Musicians must, to some extent, "manage up."

We can talk about blame all day, without fixing anything. Whether or not it's fair, the musicians are probably going to have to be the fixers in this particular situation.

At one church I worked for, I was found and offered a job before the old music director knew he was being fired. I knew about the situation, however, I was okay with it in that instance because I knew the pastor's reasons for the secrecy were good (preventing a scandal). I'm not sure that's a typical situation, but that's how it happened.

Curatus: Click the big "Start New Discussion" button on the left side, and for the category, select "Job Openings".

Usually the "Discussion Title" is the position title and location. You may write the posting as you please, but it's probably best to include the parish name and location, hours involved, qualifications needed, salary range, and don't forget clear contact information!

Click "Post Discussion", and a moderator will soon "close" your posting, and keep it at the top of everyone's discussion list for a time. Good luck, and thanks for posting here!

MODERATORS: Perhaps "how to post a job opening" wold be a good sticky?