Intersting discussion on church music at the First Things blog.
  • Of course, I think it is something of a miracle that First Things still produces discussions of such quality three years after the passing of the most excellent Fr. Neuhaus, AND I think everyone should make a point of checking it out. It is ecumenism of the orthodox, if you get what I mean: people who take their faiths seriously seeking dialogue, not people who all agree in "progress" mouthing platitudes.

    This discussion whould be of interest.

    http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2012/07/songs-of-the-church-militant
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • A thought-provoking article, which touches on an evangelism that we too often find inconvenient-if-not-embarrassing ('politically incorrect'?) in today's world of 'tolerance', but also on past evangelistic styles that really were cultural and religious warfare. I am reminded of the very popular Protestant hymn of my youth (which, even as a child, I found rather awful and downright silly and pretentious), 'Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war, with the cross of Jesus & cet.'. There were surely Catholic equivalents of this, and they all reflected in some manner or another, if not the 'white man's burden', then the Christians' burden to 'bring up' otherwise hopelessly unrespectable and barbaric folk. What brings these images to the fore is their contrast with the teachings and style of our Lord. Such false zeal has been replaced (for the most part) today by a general abandonment of our Lord's command to evangelise the world. But, the question presents itself: 'what constitutes evangelising the gospel of Jesus?', and 'by what music is it conveyed?'. Certainly not the notions of 'warfare' and superiority in some guise or another. The heavenly worship of the Lamb finds its icon in our earthly 'Imitation of Christ', which allows no variety of pride or condescension (or zealous noise). When our Lord said that what we do to the 'least of these' we do to him, he was conferring on 'the least of these' great dignity by charging us to treat them as though they were him. As individuals and as a politcal entity we have not always done this. The music of the heavenly court is plainly, I think, not in any way martial or triumphalistic (and certainly not noisy): for one thing, it would have no need to be, for such a need is inherently insecure, the expressions of a threatened state inconsistent with heavenly bliss; for another, it would not be expressive of the fulfillment found by those who are like Him because they see Him as He is. Only the totally sublime could possibly be experienced there - unknowably (to us here) more sublime than the most exquisite polyphony or chant, or the most wondrously crafted chamber music. This is the tenor of that political worship of which the article speaks, and of all who would have a foretaste of that heavenly worship which John witnessed.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Maureen
    Posts: 678
    Actually, the Book of Revelation tells us that Heaven is full of the martyrs demanding justice and vengeance for their own spilled blood. We then get to see God sending in His army, and Jesus Himself riding at its head. The angels are clearly shown to be a heavenly host under orders, not a heavenly bunch of buddies hanging out; and the trumpets summon all sorts of things to fight for Him, or to be allowed to vainly challenge His armies and His power.

    Revelation is a very peaceful book. At the end, after all have been judged. Until then, it's all waiting for battle, getting smeared, or battling.
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • What interesting reflections to add to the article. i am glad that you all got something out of it. I thought it was quite interesting.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,965
    I concluded, long ago, that despite what the world does, God is not afflicted with political correctness.
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  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,965
    I know what you mean. According to the 16th century treaty by which my eastern church reunited with Rome, we only accept the first seven councils as ecumenical. The church was united then, and the essentials of our faith were agreed on and defined in those first seven councils.
  • teachermom24
    Posts: 327
    I am reminded of the very popular Protestant hymn of my youth (which, even as a child, I found rather awful and downright silly and pretentious), 'Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war, with the cross of Jesus & cet.'.


    I grew up with this hymn as well, in Lutheran Sunday school (I don't ever recall singing it in a church service). I like it and think it's a fine hymn for Christians. Are we not, after all, the Church Militant? I loved this as a child, believing myself a soldier for Christ, realizing that we, as Christians, are set apart from the world and do have to fight for Him. As an adult with my own children now, I realize this so much more. The battle is even more fierce and we, more than ever, need to heed the call to arms.

    Speaking of "political" hymns, if I may, what do you all think of "God of Our Fathers" for a closing hymn at Mass? Our people love this so I have scheduled it a few times a year near a national holiday. But I wonder if it is really fitting for Mass.

    Kathy
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,048
    The Royal Banners Forward Go is far superior to Onward Christian Soldiers. The latter text is burdened with a problem: the problem that it first became associated with missionary activity hand-in-hand with colonialism (the use during the World Wars, pace Churchill & FDR, doesn't translate well to our time in retrospect, because within Europe, they were wars among Christian peoples, even if the governments were not).
  • teachermom24
    Posts: 327
    This reminds me of the discussion elsewhere of objections to using the tune "Austria" because some WWII veterans might be sensitive to it. I guess the association between OCS and colonialism was lost on me as a child, and I would never have thought of it had it not been brought up now.
    Thanked by 1DougS