Terms to be forever forgotten
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    @ Jeffrey (original post)

    Here's a start:

    Gathering Song
    Sending-fourth song
    Table (in reference to the Altar)
    Presider
    Opening Prayer
    Closing Prayer

    Any others that come to mind?
    Thanked by 3benedictgal tomboysuze PurpleSquirrel
  • Mark P.
    Posts: 248
    Presentation song
    Gathering space
    Thanked by 2Blaise PurpleSquirrel
  • Paul_D
    Posts: 133
    Proclaimer
    Travelling Cross
    "our story"
    worship space
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • Jeffrey CogginsJeffrey Coggins
    Posts: 360
    Assembly
  • RagueneauRagueneau
    Posts: 2,592
    I will now share something I find remarkable.

    I am not criticizing anyone, nor casting blame, nor insulting anybody, etc.

    I own a 2002 WLP disposable Missal/Hymnal. It is so remarkable to me:

    1. They print the Entrance Antiphons and Communion Antiphons. (They chose the ones for spoken Masses, by the way, possibly by mistake.)

    2. They carefully title all these as "ENTRANCE SONG" and "COMMUNION SONG."

    3. And yet . . . one could not sing these in English (during 2002) because nobody had set them to music at that time.

    4. So, perhaps they should have called them "ENTRANCE SONG THAT DOES NOT EXIST" and "COMMUNION SONG THAT DOES NOT EXIST."

    5. Or perhaps, "ENTRANCE SONG THAT CANNOT BE SUNG," and "COMMUNION SONG THAT CANNOT BE SUNG."

    Now, we have the Simple English Propers, Simple English Psalm Tones, and many other projects.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Arena of worship
    We are church
    Bread and cup
    Faith community
  • Mark P.
    Posts: 248
    Catholic Community (of St. Vitus in the Vale)
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Then there's "worship aid" meaning pulp missalette.
  • Mike R
    Posts: 106
    Doesn't the GIRM use "assembly"? "Congregation" has always had a decidedly Protestant connotation for me, and in particular a-liturgical Protestants.
  • amindthatsuits
    Posts: 857
    Cf. CCC 1142, 1566. The concept of the Eucharistic Assembly at which the priest presides, both in persona Christi, if I have that right, and as representative of the Bishop, is quite ancient. However, using it to lower the dignity of the priest, or the Mass itself, is of course quite wrong.

    Kenneth
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    In general in the practical instructions refer to "congregation," for example:

    "the acclamation, by which the whole congregation, joining with the heavenly powers, sings the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy). this acclamation, which constitutes part of the eucharistic prayer itself, is pronounced by all the people with the priest."

    "The supplication Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) is usually sung by the choir or cantor with the congregation replying."

    "If desired, a psalm or other canticle of praise or a hymn may also be sung by the whole congregation."

  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,148
    The "Great" Amen
    Thanked by 6Jeffrey Quick JDE Mark M. Chris Allen YellowRoseofTexas Guadalupe
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,367
    All the above, plus 'digital "organ"'
    And, did anyone mention 'presider' and 'president of the assembly'?
    Plus, 'community' when one means 'parish'.
    Plus 'St Helen Catholic Church' when one means 'St Helen's Catholic Church'.
  • Chris AllenChris Allen
    Posts: 150
    minister of X (hospitality, stewardship, movement, etc.)
    Eucharistic minister
    Bishop/Father/Deacon [insert first name here] (full disclosure: our current parish administrator is one of these)
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Chris:

    ohh, I particularly dislike that one. Why is everyone automatically a minister? Why not just go all the way, and call all the non-ministers pew-warming ministers?!?! ;)
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    Bishops and priests who use nicknames seem silly, but I'll stick up for the practice of using a first name. We name the Pope and the Bishop in every Mass by their "first" names: the "Christian" name is the identity we get in baptism, and it's how we express ecclesial communion.

    I also think of the Eastern-Church practice of bishops using the first name almost always, and rarely using the last name.

    No wonder: "last" names are a relatively recent innovation in history: a product of the late Middle Ages and even later.

    When clergy present their last names in public but not their Christian names, it gives me an impression of stiffness, as if they wanted to be treated with Victorian manners and keep their distance.
    Thanked by 2Chris_McAvoy PurpleSquirrel
  • TCJ
    Posts: 966
    "Going forth song"
    "Minister of Music"

    I know Chris Allen mentioned the last in his general statement, but that music minister particularly annoys me considering that's what people in my position have been referred to at times. Too many times.
    Thanked by 2tomboysuze Mairi
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Pastoral musician - what the h*ll is that, anyway?
    Thanked by 1Guadalupe
  • YellowRoseofTexasYellowRoseofTexas
    Posts: 91
    Well, for me it brings to mind the fauns with pan-pipes in Disney's Fantasia....
    Thanked by 3tomboysuze PurpleSquirrel Mairi
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,148
    praise music
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,045
    I suppose "praise music" would be OK if we had a genre of church music that was NOT intended as praise. We could call it "curse music" or "condemnation music". It would need to be atonal and arhythmic. And we'd need to make it clear that the presence of curse music does not cancel your Sunday obligation, so offer it up.
    Thanked by 5JDE Ben janetgorbitz tomboysuze PurpleSquirrel
  • don roy
    Posts: 306
    presentation of the gifts for offertory
  • lmassery
    Posts: 404
    "upbeat"
    Thanked by 1CindyCecilia
  • Spriggo
    Posts: 122
    ...and any music that's not "upbeat" is a "dirge."
    Thanked by 2CindyCecilia Mairi
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    why can't we sing something JOYFUL?
    Thanked by 2Mairi [Deleted User]
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    We are starting a 'children's Mass' next week. Apparently, that is what we have been missing.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,367
    We can't sing that

    The words to these hymns need to be changed, people don't tawk like that no more.
    Thanked by 4CHGiffen Chris Allen Chris_McAvoy PurpleSquirrel
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    Modern
  • IanWIanW
    Posts: 756
    Liturgist. Substitute liturgical scholar, MC or interfering busybody.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Or the time a 300-lb. lady told me she wanted to be "uplifted." Of course, I visualized a crane doing the lifting.
    Thanked by 7Spriggo Ben Jeffrey Quick YellowRoseofTexas CHGiffen tomboysuze Mairi
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    Neumes
    Chant notation
    Modern notation
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    President of the liturgical assembly
    Opening prayer (a collect is the closing prayer of a liturgical action, here the entrance rite)

    See my editorial, "Words, Words," in Sacred Music, vol. 137, no. 1, available on this web site under journal
  • TCJ
    Posts: 966
    CharlesW,

    You're comment reminded me of the time one of the choir members told my pastor that she was tired from climbing up and down the stairs to the loft and he responded that she should lose some weight so she doesn't get out of breath. Failure of tact there, but I guess if you're pastor you can get away with it.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    How 'bout :

    1: "Good morning and welcome. In the Name of the Father...."

    2: "Mass is ended go in peace, and 'havernice day'!"

    3: "And also with you, Father."

    4: "In these or similar words..."

    5: "Worship comittee."
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • henry
    Posts: 241
    Break-open.

    Why is "St. Helen's Church" correct and "St. Helen Church" not?
    Thanked by 1Guadalupe
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Henry

    do you mean as break open the Word of God?
  • henry
    Posts: 241
    Yes, or as in "let's break-open this new Roman Missal..." or "let's break-open today's First Reading..."
  • YellowRoseofTexasYellowRoseofTexas
    Posts: 91
    Why is "St. Helen's Church" correct and "St. Helen Church" not?


    Second that question.
  • ossian1898ossian1898
    Posts: 142
    song leader
  • Maureen
    Posts: 674
    Tambourines and maracas as liturgical instruments.

    Re: the possessive, this is actually a pretty interesting question. In Middle English, you see things like "the parysche of Seynte Mary". But if you don't want to spiel it out like that, the obvious thing to do is to switch to English's other possessive form, "St. Mary's parish"; and eventually that's what people do. The alternate path is to eliminate the possessive (and potentially disrespect the patron saint) by just treating the whole thing as an ordinary proper name, like "St. Mary Parish." This works better with a long title or doctrinal name (St. Mary on the Hill Parish, Trinity Parish, Our Lady of the Rosary Parish) than with a more personal name. ("St. Charles Borromeo's" trips sweetly off the tongue, for example.)
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,367
    Though some churches are named for a biblical event or a doctrine, such as Transfiguration or Immaculate Conception, most bear the names of a saint, who is, then, the patron saint of that parish. Hence, it is St Jerome's Church; it is not just 'named after' him and called rather sillily, St Jerome church, but St J is the parish patron and it is therefore St Jerome's church under his protection. Even Methodists and certainly Anglicans get this right while Catholics seem rather purposefully to get it wrong; probably at the instigation of certain types who look for all those little things and little ways to undermine Catholic culture. Frankly, not using the possessive form sounds dumb and betrays an ignorance of this aspect of Catholic culture. A related loss is the patronal festival, which takes place on the patron's feast day. This should be a major feast in the life of every Catholic parish, marked by a terribly high mass and a banquet in the parish hall. Again, you would be right if you guessed that this custom lives in Anglican churches but is almost unheard of in Catholic churches any more
    Thanked by 1CindyCecilia
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    Thanks for bringing up this point!

    Dropping the possessive form does seem to step away from a lively relationship with the patron saint, turning the parish name into a mere memorial, in the way that museums and even certain Protestant churches are named after deceased worthies.

    The first time I heard the issue come up, though, was from certain anti-Catholic persons who would ask a stranger which church they belonged to, and then opine that -- well, maybe you belong to St. Jerome's Church, but I belong to Christ's! Maybe they were trying to win souls, but it just seemed like pointless sarcasm to me.
  • expeditus1
    Posts: 483
    "We are a priestly people."

    Eucharistic Prayer #2: "We thank you for counting us worthy to stand in your presence and serve you."

    Pitches involving the theme of "Share your time, talent, treasure. Money is the root of all evil. If the parish collections don't pick up, we may be forced to close the other church in our newly formed parish cluster." (Actually heard in Mass a couple weeks ago).
  • Chris_McAvoyChris_McAvoy
    Posts: 389
    Indeed chonak, when I was attending the FSSP Mater Dei community in Harrisburg, PA and a fellow lay person heard me call the Superior general by his first name of Fr. Eric instead of "Fr. Flood" . This lay person nearly started a fight with me out for calling him by his "christian name". You know, these are the type of people who are always talking about women not supposed to be "wearing pants". People whom every little detail matters to!

    For me, it it a bizarre ridiculous practice to "insist" that a cleric by called only by their surname instead of christian name. To this day I avoid it as much as possible.

    By the way, for the record, I also don't think that women should wear pants to church, so long the weather and health dont prevent dresses. And I also agree that EVERY detail of the liturgy is VERY important. But they are not issues I am as focused on as some.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,367
    I prefer to call a priest by his Christian name rather than by his surname, and I believe that there is far greater antiquity behind the former than the latter practice. Some priests, though, are visibly uncomfortable or taken aback (or threatened?) by this; some actually act as though one had committed lese majeste. So, I accomodate them. And, in doing so, I feel that they, likewise, should not presume to call me by my Christian name without an invitation to do so. This should be a two-way street.
    Now that the Ordinariate of the Chair of St Peter is a reality, I asked Fr Steenson today after the ceremonies what we should call him. He who is now the highest rank of Monsignor and was standing there in a bishop's choir habit. He said quite sincerely to call him Fr Jeffrey. He is a very brilliant but humble man with a rather characteristic Anglican kindness and a PhD in Patristics from Oxford who is now a Catholic ordinary. Call him Fr Jeffrey. Still... I can hardly resist calling him Your Grace.
  • daniel
    Posts: 75
    Worship space.
  • Jeffrey CogginsJeffrey Coggins
    Posts: 360
    @expeditus1
    Pitches involving the theme of "Share your time, talent, treasure. Money is the root of all evil. If the parish collections don't pick up, we may be forced to close the other church in our newly formed parish cluster." (Actually heard in Mass a couple weeks ago).


    Some Catholic churches have "Time and Talent Fairs".
  • expeditus1
    Posts: 483
    Some Catholic churches have "Time and Talent Fairs".

    Jeffrey, have never been to one of those. Do they have anything to do with jesters, jugglers, and jousters under the Big Tent?
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I'd prefer that the word traditional disappear. It's overused to where it means nothing.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,148
    sermon
  • PMulholland
    Posts: 120
    Overhead projector
    Response (Acclaimed at the end of each verse of the Responsorial Psalm)
    Contemporary Worship
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