• rollingrj
    Posts: 344
    My latest post at my 'blog, "A Wing and A Prayer".

    NB: The position is part-time.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    rollingrj

    Our condolences and our prayers on the death of your music program. Time for the resurrection! When we met I had an inkling that you might be directing a choir at some point.
  • Carl DCarl D
    Posts: 992
    Have faith that God will guide you through this darkness. This is what declining membership and economic hardship looks like.
  • Question: did the pastor at any time point out to the congregation that "We spend this, we take in this, if we don't increase what we take in, we're have to let the music director go. And BTW, if every family made minimum wage and tithed, we'd be taking in X [that is probably more than they're getting now]...just sayin'..."?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    It might be instructive to look at the parish's most recent annual financial report, to remind oneself of where the money comes from and where it goes.
  • The BEST way to fix a budget problem is to cut services that are considered unimportant.

    This proves that yet another parish is run by fools who do not respect the Blessed Sacrament.

    It's not a slam against Sacred Music, it is a slam against the Blessed Sacrament.
  • Not knowing the details of the situation, I won't rush to judge....but Noel is correct in his first point. You cut the least necessary items from your budget first. What would be most telling is what they DIDN'T cut....
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Was there any warning at least to the DoM out of respect to him?
  • rollingrj
    Posts: 344
    Jeffrey and Richard: We just had our recent "State of the Parish Finances" report at all Masses a few weeks ago. The last fiscal year ran a significant deficit (around $105,000 IIRC and I know I can get the balance sheet). The Finance Council has done a magnificent job in their stewardship of parish resources; I think we finally just came up against the poor economy. And I had done a little math (as did the chair of the Finance Council during his presentation). We are a parish of about 400 families. An increase of $1.25-1.50 per family each week takes care of the deficit.

    Francis: I would be a stopgap solution. I could conduct but I have no keyboard skills (unlike our laid-off MD who is a fine organist and competent choir director). Granted, you don't need a keyboard to do chant, but this parish is more "four-hymn sandwich" than the changeable five (Propers). Bricks had been laid in that direction--I was singing the Introit (along with another choir member) and occasionally the Communio and the choir was regularly singing the Communion Antiphon from SEP. I don't think the parish is ready for any more chant right now. Our staff of cantors and accompanists was assigned by the wife of the MD; I know I could step into that role right now.

    Our current priest is from a religious order and is working toward incardination into the diocese (and also has a very fine singing voice, I might add). This is his first assignment as a parish priest. He has stated he wants to increase the number of youth and young families in the parish. It is my belief (and I think that of a good many people here) a reverent, beautiful liturgy will do more to increase numbers (both in terms of parishioners and the collection) than anything else. How this will be done in light of this move remains to be seen.
  • rollingrj
    Posts: 344
    Francis: There was no warning. Father and the DofM finally met this past Tuesday after a few reschedules (both parties were out of the country at different times during September for personal reasons). That's when the news was broken. There was also a meeting of the cantors; a meeting scheduled (and I think unknowingly) when the DofM was gone and one I couldn't attend due to another commitment. I am the only cantor who was part of the choir; I need to know what happened at the cantor's meeting. It would go a long way to knowing what I can do.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,150
    This is so sad ... brings back memories from about 25 years ago, although a different situation, but essentially the same result. I pray that, with reconsideration, wiser and saner heads will prevail - and I pray for your own discernment in this difficult time.
  • It would make much more sense to approach members of the congregation who love the music to add an envelope with $ for music each week. The pastor could have done this, with music and other needs, it would immediately show whether or not people value music...and....well, what else from the Mass could be cut to save money?

    Lights? Heat?

    The church documents say that there should be music at Mass and say nothing about lights, nor sound systems, heat, nor paved parking lots, nor...

    And they cut music, music led by a professional to bring the best to the liturgy. Do they serve Ripple? Seriously?

    I'm sure that they have cut lawn service, garbage pickup, pizza night for the youth group before they mess with the Mass. Right.

    Stupid, stupid, stupid.

    And I'm being polite.
  • One option woudl be for the DOM to volunteer services until things get better.

    DO NOT LET THIS PERSON DO IT.

    He was not let go because of finances, he was let go because someone wanted rid of him, someone with the pastor's ear.

    Otherwise the pastor would have sat down with all the musicians and discussed the situation before firing.

    When Sheep Attack 101.
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I say they cut the hosts and wine budget - save money (and time!) by eliminating the communion of the faithful.

    It makes about as much sense.
  • I can see it, Communion Of Only Those Who Can Pay For It. ATM/Debit Cards with ID Accepted.

    Or, station street people to distribute unconsecrated hosts, only those who can afford it get the good stuff.

    And of course, that's what it is all about. Keeping the good stuff from the people. A good music program in a Catholic church singing Latin results in brother priests angry with the pastor for stepping out of line and encouraging such foolishness.

    I know one parish where the new associate said, "What's the deal, all these people at Mass smile and say, "I'm from St. Pastor's-A-Jerk."

    It's called going to Mass not where you are assigned, but where you are drawn to go. A new concept and one that has caught on as huge numbers of Catholics do the ultimate and go away. In the church music business we run into all kinds, you should hear the complaints about former Roman priest who defect to protestant pulpits. First of all they wold now know a good hymn if it....
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,150
    If 400 families added $2 per week to their support of the church, that would bring in about $40,000 more, which (I'm guessing) would more than pay the music budget. Even $1.25 per week extra per family would bring in $25,000, probably enough to keep the Music Director - money well-spent.
  • If 400 familes added $2 a week the priest and bishop would have a heart-attack...then where would we be! Good point, CHG....they are afraid to ask the people for the people might respond and tell them wat they really think.

    The choir isn't even as important as the band at a football game.

    Time For Choir Booster's Club. Seriously. Open their own bank account.
  • rollingrj
    Posts: 344
    One option woudl be for the DOM to volunteer services until things get better.


    The choir members asked if would do that. As he lives in the southern part of Salt Lake City, he stated it wouldn't be financially prudent for him.

    He was not let go because of finances, he was let go because someone wanted rid of him, someone with the pastor's ear.


    Noel, I assure you it was financial; it had nothing to do with his performance. He has been laid-off; he has right of first refusal when things improve. Whether he does or not remains to be seen.

    Our new priest has only been here for less than three months; I highly doubt he could have been influenced in that short period of time. Then, again, I will admit my naivety in matters such as this. I do need to read that book; I may be stepping into that breach.
  • Noel, I assure you it was financial; it had nothing to do with his performance.

    I think what Noel was getting at was if the DoM offered to volunteer his services, and the pastor refused, then you could know for sure that he was let go because of non-financial reasons.
  • You are both right...it is possible for it to go either way.

    If you read Fr. Scorched Earth, know that after that chapter was written, volunteering to stay on for free until things improved resulted in being fired when things did improve, the three sheep killers getting their way.

    People who do things with good intentions cannot compete with people with bad intentions who influence even a good priest.

    And dealing with priests who have something to hide....is a loose-loose situation for all.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    Not that this would work in this situation, but...

    I was thinking, wouldn't it be fun to partner with NPM or somebody on a round-robin hire-fire scheme? When one parish switches over to chant, and another switches over to Gather, what if there was a clearing-house of DMs that could arrange a swap, like in professional sports?

    A full-service swap would also switch out the pipe organ for the baby grand.

    It would be harder to trade a seven-second reverb for a state-of-the-art mixer. So obviously this is totally impracticable...
  • So sorry to hear this. It's rampant these days. I know personally two fine musicians - one traditional organ and the other a guitar-slinger, who were let go to save money. It's sad that contributions drop in hard times, but the utilities and mortgage don't.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,217
    Let me tell you....times are tough out there.

    A friend recently picked up a gig taking photos of homes 'past due' on mortgage payments in an upper-middle class neighborhood. Does about 60 homes/month. In a few cases, he's shot a home in July which was abandoned by September. These are $200K-$500K homes.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Today, our chancellor visited and preached at 3 of the 4 Sunday morning masses. He preached on the fact that so few in the diocese contribute to the diocesan fund. I mentioned to one of my choir members that the chancellor had come today to preach about money. The choir member said, "Good. I hope he brought some with him. We need it." You are quite correct. Times are tough out there.
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    hey, yeah! Lights are expensive, right? And totally unnecessary. What else do we use all those candles for?!

    bonus in that candles provide heat, as well.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Was it heat and electric lights in 19th century Russia? It was not. Is outrage!
  • Charles, with no electricity is no organ. Serfs cannot pump Rodgers.
  • Jam, nice to see you!
    CW/JQ, I can hear the Slavic in your barbs! Love it.
    Serfs v. Rodgers? Nyet!
    Comrades bourne zuh pyehduhls, maykink vahter styeam, turn zuh turbeens, vich meks electrik mahgnehto zharge, zo vee kyan prowide woltage eenyuff to zuh flute ranks, dah?
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,150
    I remember the old 12 rank Kilgen that had bellows pumps, which worked quite well whenever there was a power outage. Sometimes, when we wanted to have fun and would pump it up to about 3-4 times its nominal low pressure - then it sounded almost like a calliope!
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    ya

    ven zee blinken lietzens go poof, vee singen das chant!
  • marajoymarajoy
    Posts: 781
    but candles are expensive, too!
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    you can recycle the candle stubs by remelting and making new candles (at least you can with beeswax; we do this all the time with our liturgical candles or mail them back to be recycled). plus if people want light to sing from their Gather hymnals they can pay for their own candle! idk.

    and hey, people remember me here! nice to see you too, sir.
  • Let people bring in candles, and they'll bring in Coleman lanterns, until the place looks like an Amish sleepover. Plus, the churches with all the carpeting might burn down... that's a bad thing, because there's no money, and they'd be rebuilt tackier and more cheaply.
  • JamJam
    Posts: 636
    resurrecting this thread just to say that the Russian church I go to here in Dublin was recently hit by a freak flood that took out its electricity and heating. Their building is an old stone Catholic church that they bought, and the light from the sun thru the stained-glass windows is more than enough. On cloudy days the light from all the vigil lamps and the prayer candles in the candle-stands is plenty as well. As for the heating, people just leave their coats on when they come in. (actually, for a lot of the really old Catholic churches in Dublin you have to do that anyway, since the huge spaces are nigh unheatable.) just cross yourself a lot and the energy will heat you up. :) plus, full prostrations when the priest brings the Eucharist out from behind the iconostasis! every Sunday! I love this.

    See? what did I tell you. candles, people. Granted, these were candles that we'd use regardless of electric light, but still.

    also, good architecture with plenty of tall windows helps...