How do you end the Kyrie in the OF?
  • mlabelle
    Posts: 46
    In the transition from ninefold Kyrie in the EF to sixfold Kyrie in the OF, the sense of dialogue becomes somewhat of a "repeat after me" game between the cantor/first choir and the congregation/second choir. The final Kyrie (what would be 9 of 9, now 6 of 6) gets confused because people neither expect a change nor are they familiar with the ending. Think of Kyrie XVI, with its unexpected flash of modality on the final syllable. Should the cantor just intone the final Kyrie so that the congregation can dutifully mimic it?

    Now think of Kyrie III (Kyrie Deus Sempiterna), VI (Kyrie Rex Genitor), IX (Cum Jubilo), X (Alme Pater), and XV (Dominator Deus), which each contain no fewer than seven distinct melodies in total. Do they even have a place in the OF? Do we choose the ones that repeat, and separate the others into new settings? Your thoughts.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    It is depressing that the threefold repetition process - think, Sanctus, sanctus, sanctus - which originated in Hebrew liturgy - has been abandoned on the OF.
  • mlabelle
    Posts: 46
    Though there is no regulation of the number of repetitions in polyphonic Kyries... Would it be permissible/pastoral to maintain a ninefold sung Kyrie in the OF?
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    GIRM, no. 52. After the Act of Penitence, the Kyrie is always begun, unless it has already been included
    as part of the Act of Penitence. Since it is a chant by which the faithful acclaim the Lord and
    implore his mercy, it is ordinarily done by all, that is, by the people and with the choir or cantor
    having a part in it.
    As a rule, each acclamation is sung or said twice, though it may be repeated several times, by
    reason of the character of the various languages, as well as of the artistry of the music or of other
    circumstances.     When the Kyrie is sung as a part of the Act of Penitence, a trope may precede
    each acclamation.

    So, it seems that the nine-fold would be okay.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    and preferable.
  • miacoyne
    Posts: 1,805
    My homeschooling children's schola always sing 9 fold Kyrie. We love it. While we learn to sing our tradition of 9 fold Kyrie in Holy Mass, we learned to take time to pray for God's mercy to meet our Lord at the communion and remember 9 choirs of angels around the tabernacle. We also learn to be more active and alert in singing it 'antiphonally,' otherwise it's easy to forget the counting since we are not so used it yet. (I boldface the part where the congregation sing in the handout.)

    The children ask me why the adults do only 6 times. Well, adults are too busy? Don't know. We've been singing 9 fold Kyrie more than 2 years now with the pastor's permission. But a few weeks ago, he asked me why there were extra lines of Kyrie on the handout. ??!!

    Usually with adults we do 6 fold, but we sing the finale Kyrie with the change (we sing simple ones.) When people hear it often, they seemed to catch on.
  • incantuincantu
    Posts: 989
    I use this solution:

    Simple (sixfold) Kyrie - 1. choir (or cantor), 2. ALL (repeat)
    Solemn (ninefold) Kyrie - 1. cantor(s), 2. ALL (repeat) 3. choir (last Kyrie with final ending)

    That way the final ending is only sung by the choir. We'll also use this practice for harmonized or polyphonic Kyries, with the first sung by a cantor, the second by ALL, and the harmony or polyphony by the choir alone.
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