Advent/Christmas mass ordinary
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    What ordinaries do you use for the Advent/Christmas season? I just began in a new parish and we started using "Mass for Christian Unity" for the fall, and after two weeks I think they are only just beginning to remember it. I'm not sure what I want to use for Advent/Christmas, but I don't want them to always feel like they are learning something.

    A chant setting in either latin or english won't be the best idea right now, since we have been doing a LOT of chant lately, and I really do think they need a break (since there wasn't a tradition of chant prior to my arrival).

    The mass settings they used to use prevalently were Mass of Creation, Mass of Light, etc. Not too many great ones.

    What do you use in your parishes?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    I do think that we overestimate the boredom level of Catholics, who are more apt to sing anything they recognize, chant or not, than music that changes with the seasons.
  • Bobby Bolin
    Posts: 417
    Danish Mass or People's Mass might work well for you.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,045
    At St. James AC, we've tended toward the Malcolm Missa Ad Praesepe or the Charpentier Messe de Minuit. I haven't heard your bunch yet, but it's pretty clear that's not the ticket for your group (Latin, the Malcolm divides in all parts, you have to deal with inegale in the Charpentier, tenors, not exactly one of your OF active-participation pieces). If it weren't for your chant overload problem, I'd suggest doing Mass XVII (or maybe XVI) and then do something special for Christmas. I don't know the OF repertoire, but if there's something in keeping with the penitential season (no 6/8!), that's your ticket. I see Advent as having different demands from Christmas, but if you can find something else right for Christmas, you could do it through Epiphany.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    I recommend this Kyrie for Advent.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    Richard Proulx's Missa Emmanuel is great for Advent and Christmas. It is based on O Come O Come Emmanuel - a tune that nearly everyone is comfortable with and introduces the chant style. Great time to introduce people to it. There are intricate choral parts, but these could be played on organ with only a unison melody from cantor and congregation.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    Sorry, i misread why you thought chant wouldn't be a good idea.... nevertheless, I wanted to make that plug. :)
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    No, Skirp, actually that one wouldn't be a bad idea necessarily since it is so well known ... the only problem is, per GIA's website, that is not a mass setting being reworked for the new text, so we would only use it one year.
  • SkirpRSkirpR
    Posts: 854
    I know one is not supposed to do this, but considering the passing of Mr. Proulx, that one would not be difficult to rework for the new text oneself - since there is no Gloria.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Or write your own Missa Emmanuel- the tune is the Commons.
  • SamuelDorlaque
    Posts: 318
    I would second the suggestion of Proulx's "Missa Emmanuel." It is stunning when done with full choir. You must have
    the octavos, though. The RitualSong Hymnal only gives the melody lines. This is a wonderful example of late 20th Century
    contemporary sacred music, flowing from the well-spring of the sacred chant. Highly recommended.
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    I agree that it is a good composition; when I was an assistant organist at a cathedral I played it there and liked it.

    Anyhow, I don't know what the legal ramifications could be of using the originial copyrighted octavo harmonies and reworking them for the new text. GIA specifically said that they will not permit that. I don't want to invite a lawsuit.
  • papalgal
    Posts: 35
    Proulx did manage to rework some of his Mass settings before he died. We are going to begin using the Jubilate Deo settings for our parish bilingual liturgies. Maybe we can also use it for Advent. My old parish in Austin used to use the Land of Rest Mass settings for Advent and Lent.
  • Jeffrey CogginsJeffrey Coggins
    Posts: 360
    Anyhow, I don't know what the legal ramifications could be of using the originial copyrighted octavo harmonies and reworking them for the new text. GIA specifically said that they will not permit that. I don't want to invite a lawsuit.


    The melody and text are free from any copyright protection. The only things they could claim any protection on are Proulx's choir harmonies, organ accompaniment, and the form of the pieces. I suppose as long as you're not claiming ownership of those elements, you're still not infringing on copyright protection.

    BTW - does the "Missa Emmanuel" octavo/full-score provide any organ registration suggestions? Like with Ritual Song, my Gather Comprehensive isn't comprehensive enough to give choir harmonies or organ registration suggestions like they give in their separate full-scores/octavos.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,045
    Technically, if you retexted the Proulx, you'd be creating a derivative work without permission.
    Practically, even if they found out (unlikely), there's zip reason for them to go after you with anything stronger than a cease-and-desist order. There's no money to be had, and a lot of bad press. You've bought the scores, and it's not your fault they're no longer licit. Arguably, they're being financially harmed because if you couldn't do the Proulx (as you couldn't without the copyright violation) you'd do some other mass, likely published by GIA.

    Now, whether that would be moral or not depends on your understanding of Church teaching. Much as I don't want there to be, there are better arguments against it than for it. What would Proulx do, or want done?
  • Jeffrey CogginsJeffrey Coggins
    Posts: 360
    I guess what I was saying was that if you retexted it using a different form, and only did it as unison a cappella (or with an improvised organ accompaniment), then there is no copyright violation since both the melody and text are not under copyright protection.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,045
    At what point do you lose identity of the work? If you're lost everything that makes it "the Proulx", then what you have is "Mass on O Come Emmanuel by Jeffrey Coggins". which could be a fine thing indeed, but not the same piece.
  • Jeffrey CogginsJeffrey Coggins
    Posts: 360
    I'm fine with that ... although I do like Proulx's organ accompaniment for it. I didn't even know there were choir parts for it, but there's no point in purchasing the octavos now I guess.
  • ref_scottref_scott
    Posts: 90
    I composed a mass setting for SATB or congregation and organ on the Advent chant "Conditor alme siderum" if you are interested. It is in the current translation so it would be the last year you could use it.
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