Conducting the accompanist
  • john m
    Posts: 136
    I regularly accompany a local choral group. I have been the conductor of my own choirs for 30 years and I know most of the repertoire sung by the group I accompany. While I can see the merit of conducting an ensemble, in order that every starts with the same tempo (especially if they do not regularly play together), I am mystified by the perceived need to conduct someone who is playing a solo instrument. An indication of tempo and a nod that I may begin at my discretion are really all that is necessary. If there is an "outro" (great term I stole from my brother) after the choir finishes, I like to think that I am musician enough to observe the dynamics and the rallentando and when to release the final chord.

    Any suggestions as to how to break it gently to the conductor that a competent and experienced pianist of organist doesn't really need to be conducted when playing alone? It is not a matter of cosmic importance, but it would save a lot of false start during rehearsal and some minor angst in the car driving home.

  • PaxTecum
    Posts: 302
    I would be annoyed by this too but would probably just suck it up and let them do their thing while I do mine
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,943
    Try saying ... "I'll meet you at the coda".
    Thanked by 1JosquinGetEnough
  • Chaswjd
    Posts: 254
    There is a story of Herbert Von Karajan and Ann Sophie Mutter rehearsing the Tchaikovsky violin concerto. She thought his tempo too slow, so she decided to take off and attempted to set the tempo at which she thought the piece should be played. The maestro did not agree so he continued to conduct the orchestra at his tempo. She finished the piece when Von Karajan and the orchestra were still four measures back.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I wonder if there might be a "litmus test" to gauge collaborative consensus between conductor and keyboardist?
    I suggest a piece such as "Cantique de Jean Racine" for the synergy among chorus and accompaniment. Should the instrumental interludes be performed to the conductor's compliance (who ought to be the final arbiter), no word (or motion) is necessary. If not, I would think a few persuasive comments would suffice. Often an exchanged glance should also do.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Any suggestions as to how to break it gently to the conductor that a competent and experienced pianist of organist doesn't really need to be conducted when playing alone?


    Do you mean when you are playing without the choir, or when you are accompanying them? If you are playing with the choir, I would fully expect you to follow my direction as the conductor, and especially to take my tempo.

    If there is an "outro" (great term I stole from my brother) after the choir finishes, I like to think that I am musician enough to observe the dynamics and the rallentando and when to release the final chord.


    I agree: if the choir is no longer singing, and it is the end of the song, there is no need to conduct the accompanist, even in concluding expressive elements such as rallantando. If there are interpretive aspects that I would like, I would confer privately with the accompanist on such issues. If I was conducting an orchestra, however, I would conduct through to the very end. However, a general rule in conducting is "less is more," so I try to get out of the way as much as I can.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    One thing to consider for introductions is that the director might not necessarily be conducting for the pianist per se, but for the chorus, that they might get a chance to really hear and see the tempo before they begin to so; this could be helpful especially for amateur choruses.

    Also, it could depend on the "school" of the conductor -- they might just feel that they need to be in charge of all aspects of a performance at all times.

    Or, someone who is used to conducting orchestras or bands might just not know what to do with their hands when standing in front of a group of performers with someone playing solo. Picking your ears isn't an option, or at least not a very good one.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Or, someone who is used to conducting orchestras or bands might just not know what to do with their hands when standing in front of a group of performers with someone playing solo. Picking your ears isn't an option, or at least not a very good one.


    If the conductor has been to music school, they should know how to handle such situations. Every band and orchestra conductor will at some point have to work with a soloist, and soloists have CADENZAS frequently where the band or orchestra is NOT playing. It was part of my basic training in conducting.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    I wasn't going to comment on this matter, but then, here are my thoughts -

    I would not get bent our of shape if the choirmaster had specific nuances of tempo and expression in mind and directed any intros, interludes, or closing phrases of an anthem. Doing so communicates their importance. Not doing so could indicate that they are irrelevant.

    I do agree fully that any competent accompanist is quite capable of delivering such passages with artful musicianship and that a sensitive choirmaster might leave them to the discretion of his or her organist. But, if he or she desires to direct these passages I would say that such is his or her prerogative, much as I might be choking on my own chagrin.

    The choirmaster is, after all, the director of the entire composition, and what to leave to the discretion of others is entirely a matter for him or her to decide. Actually, if the choirmaster stops conducting before the entire piece is finished it could well indicate that a coda or closing phrase, not to mention the playing of the organist, is of absolutely no importance, a mere afterthought of no consequence - that he or she (and the choir) is just standing there waiting patiently for you to finish up your little ending.

    You have a choice: you can feel included, or you can feel insulted.

    Perhaps a friendly, respectful, and collegial tete a tete over coffee or lunch is in order.
    Thanked by 3chonak rich_enough CHGiffen
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    While the choral conductor is cueing the accompanist, he is also indirectly communicating with the choir. Some groups need to be reminded often that the singers are supposed to follow the conductor's cues and not depend on what they hear from the instrumentalist(s), lest they lag behind the beat.
    Thanked by 4M. Jackson Osborn Casavant Organist ClergetKubisz CHGiffen
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I conduct from the organ. Life is soooo much simpler without a frantic arm waver.
    Thanked by 3ClergetKubisz M. Jackson Osborn CHGiffen
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