Anglican Use HELP
  • ElizabethB
    Posts: 6
    Hi, I am a member of the Ordinariate, I am one of the founding members of Blessed John Henry Newman in Irvine and now building an Ordinariate Parish in Pasadena.
    As of June 27th I took over the role of organist/choir director for Our Lady of Grace (Pasadena) And boy am I having "fun" finding the Propers. Last Sunday, I took a picture from the Lectionary for July 9th-- so I have the correct psalm, but I feel like I found the Propers for last Sunday, quite by accident and thanks to ADD--
    Has anyone found the magic path in one place or should I just continue with the Anglican History site; and the Anglican Use Gradual, making sure that everything aligns?

  • Elizabeth,

    Our resident specialist is Jackson Osborn.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 5,017
    You have found the propers in the right place. Continue with the AUG. If you want and have the personnel for different music you may use the Palmer-Burgess English adaptations of the Graduale Romanum, which is available by gracious permission of the sisters at St Mary's, Wantage, as a reprint from the CMAA. The propers may also be sung to Anglican chant, or in some composed SATB choral version

    As for the psalm, the source for that is the Roman Lectionary. However, you should use the Coverdale translation - NOT the Lectionary's. The Coverdale should be used for all psalmody in the Ordinariate. The psalm at mass should be sung by all to Anglican chant. The Alleluya verse, also, should come from the AUG, NOT from the Lectionary. And, use the AUG's Alleluya with its brief jubilus- NOT one of those trite little triple ones from some other source.

    Do you have a choir?
    Of how many persons?
    Do you have an organ?
    What are you musical resources?
    How large is your congregation?

    (A word about the Palmer-Burgess: compare the text to that in the AUG because, once in a great while a word or two has been changed here and there. so you will want apply the appropriate editing. Also, the Palmer-Burgess follows the old kalendar, so, if you wish to use it, you must needs search around for the correct antiphon on those few occasions on which the antiphons don't match up. Unfortunately, the P-B has no index, so paging through it will be needful when it doesn't match the AUG. One of my ongoing projects is a badly needed index for both volumes of the P=B.)
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen canadash
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 1,283
    A reminder that an index to the Plainchant Gradual has been discussed before and a modest beginning made.
  • ElizabethB
    Posts: 6
    Ah, great questions......I currently have a choir of 4 baritones; we have a congregation of about 48, we have an "organ". My musical resources, well-- I was raised in the Anglican Church and was so giddy when the Ordinariate became a reality. I have my grandmother's 1940 accompanist hymnal, and the internet. I also have a friend who is well versed in Latin Mass, who is going to help get the choir (of four) back on track.

    And I just found the Alleluia of which you speak-- I do have a pretty good cantor right now.

    I do have open the Coverdale Lectionary, I guess I was looking for the psalms with a tune. I have them both separately right now.

    We can't even approach Anglican Chant, right now-- though I cannot wait until we can. It is something I have enjoyed singing. Sadly, that parish, now has "Pink Floyd Masses"

    Thank you, good to know I am on the correct path.

    And Richard, thank you-- I have been reading this group since last Tuesday.

    M. Jackson Osborn, I look forward to learning much from you.
  • ElizabethB
    Posts: 6
    Forgive me, so last week, Father sent me a screen shot of the Lectionary, I found the Propers that matched the Lectionary, they were from OT 9 (I think). If I am understanding Jackson Osborn correctly, I should not have gone that route. Should I just go by the OT designation I find on the Ordinariate Ordo, online?

    I ended up using Lalemant Propers; it worked last week..... But they were from the 9th week in OT- I guess my problem is just as you implied-- I looked at the Lectionary screen shot and then went with Lalemant Propers.

  • ElizabethB
    Posts: 6
    And since I am here-- to give you a peak into what I am cleaning up-- the previous organist was trying to fit the Credo into a Latin setting, even though we were singing it in English. I was only to be subbing on Sunday and had immediately texted Father to ask if we could do the Merbecke Credo-- I was told that I was reading his mind-- We are using the Willan for the rest of the Mass.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 5,017
    So! Anglican chant is beyond you at this point in time.
    Here, then, is what I would do -
    By any, every, and all means use the Coverdale psalter for any and all psalmody in the Ordinariate.
    If you can't manage Anglican chant, then sing the psalm as a responsory. You can compose an easy chant-like responsory for the people, and have a cantor sing the verses to one of the Gregorian psalm tones, NOT any of these modern tones from Mundelein or some other place.

    If you don't have this book, get it -
    St Dunstan's Plainsong Psalter, available from the Lancelot Andrewes Press.
    It contains the entire Coverdale psalter set and pointed to various Gregorian psalm tones - plus English versions of all the canticles and the Marian antiphons.
    You may sing responsorial psalmody from this book by supplying an easy people's responsory that you compose. If your cantor is talented, he or she may improvise chant melodies for each of the psalm verses. Otherwise, sing them from the St Dunstan psalter.
    Another possibility would be to have the entire congregation sing the psalm straight through (in directum) to one of the Gregorian tones. Contrary to what certain folk would insist, congregations can and do do this. We have in Houston St Thomas' Episcopal School at which the entire student body of around 6 or 7 hundred sing psalmody to Gregorian tones at chapel every day - and they sing it heartily.

    About your use of the Lalemont Propers. This is an admirable book, very admirable, which is a superb resource for Roman rite Catholics. The translations, though, do not match the hieratic English of the Ordinariate and would be rather jarring juxtaposed with the Ordinariate Use. When you have at your fingertips the AUG, it makes little sense to look elsewhere and import modern language intended for another rite into our Use. I would discourage this.

    I'm delighted absolutely that you will be singing Merbecke's credo. We don't even do that at the cathedral! (Sad to say, we seem stuck on recto tono.) Another possibility is the Sarum creed (credo I) which is found in the back of the 1940 - though you will need to supply the missing 'holy' at 'and I believe one, (holy), Catholic and Apostolic Church'. This omission was a error in the printing of the 1940 that never got corrected.

    An invaluable resource is The Kyrial (St Dunstan's Edition), published aeons ago by H.W. Gray. It is out of print, but if you could find one or some from Amazon or someplace it would be wonderful to have. It contains English adaptations of most of the Gregorian mass cycles, including the requiem, plus Merbecke - all in chant notation.

    It is admirable that you can sing the Willan. You may want to opt for Merbecke during non-festal seasons.
    Thanked by 1ElizabethB
  • TroyL
    Posts: 1
    Dear Elizabeth,

    I am the Director of Music at the Ordinariate parish in Calgary, Alberta, St. John the Evangelist. I believe I can provide a patrimonial and ready to go solution for you, that will be quite lovely for you and your four baritones. If you like, feel free to contact me through the email address provided on the parish website. Kind regards, tL.

  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 998
    Elizabeth:

    Jackson and I worked together for a while at OLW, and he taught me much of what I know on Anglican chant. After Jackson left OLW for some years, we continued to use both Anglican and Gregorian chants at every Liturgy. The congregation was always invited to sing along with the chants, even if only the melody line of the Anglican chant. (This is still a valid tradition in many Episcopal churches.) Eventually, once we had a quartet of schola cantorum, some members of the congregation picked the harmony parts, including the ministers in the Sanctuary. If you can accompany Anglican chant, and have even a few who can follow the pointing in the text while putting it to the chant melody, I would encourage you to proceed. Please, do not give singers a "through composed" version of the Anglican chant with text. It is not difficult to learn to apply the pointing in the text to a chant printed above the text. OLW had about 50/50 former Anglicans and cradle Catholics, and everyone picked up on it very quickly.
  • Ken of Sarum
    Posts: 186
    Historically, Anglican Chant was never ever meant to be sung by a congregation in the nave. It was strictly meant to be sung by a vested male choir (ideally in the choir area).
  • Coemgen
    Posts: 10
    M. Jackson Osborne, I have already indexed the Palmer-Burgess Plainchant Gradual, both volumes, all 4 parts. However, it has only Latin titles, genre (type), and page numbers. I can share you the Excel spreadsheet if you like.
  • Is there, perchance, a provision that permits a seasonal psalm that would permit a choir (and congregation?) to accept Anglican Chant through repetition, using audio files created by another fine choir to get them something to put in their ears?

    Anglican Chant, being created for English, is much easier to sing that people believe.

    At a Catholic high school after pointing the psalm for two weeks for them, the girl's choir took over pointing, rehearsing and self-conducting the psalm at weekly Mass.

    Thank you.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 5,017
    Ken is right about Anglican chant -
    But, as history has unfolded it has commonly been sung by all.
    The people at Walsingham are undaunted by it - some even sing in parts.
    Thanked by 1Steve Collins
  • Coemgen
    Posts: 10
    Plainchant Gradual index is here. It's only Latin titles, genres, and page numbers however.

    Unzip it with 7zip or Winrar or whatever and then open in Excel. Maybe someone can make use of it. Beware of typos.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 998
    Ken: in my opinion, and from my comprehension of the situational differences between periods in history, I'm sure that congregations did not used to be proficient enough (or possibly interested enough) to tackle chanting from the pews. It is also my understanding that congregational "participation" on east and west sides of The Pond are actually historically different: the east (Britain) contains both Anglican and Catholic congregations who are quite happy to have the choir always sing parts of the Liturgy, while the west (USA) tends towards the congregations singing more, again, both Episcopalian and Catholic congregations. It may very well be that my statement of the congregation singing Anglican chant is more an American tradition.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 5,017
    All those Anglican chants in the back of the 1940 aren't there just to look at. They were and are sung by Episcopalian congregations as well as their choirs. The practice in American cathedrals will, though, more closely resemble the cathedral and collegiate tradition in England. Outside of the cathedrals is there a tradition in England for the people to sing Anglican chant in their parishes? Can someone 'over there' tell us? It is notable that there are no Anglican chants in any of the English hymnals, separate chant psalters, of which there are many, being the norm.

    When Walsingham was founded ('erected' is the correct term) I deliberately instituted singing the psalm in directum to Anglican chant rather than as a responsory as it is performed in Roman rite churches. I did this deliberately to maintain a gorgeous gem of our patrimony and to distinguish our Anglican Use liturgy from the other rites, Roman and eastern, of the Church. Some of my Anglo-Catholic friends frowned on this - because many Anglo-Catholics frowned upon Anglican chant, thinking it 'protty', and had a strong predilection for the Gregorian tones for psalmody. Otherwise, I instituted a generous amount of chant from the 'Gregorian' repertory.

    My earliest memory of Anglican chant is as a child of 5 or 6 at Christ Church, Springfield, Missouri, singing Benedictus to the Jackman chant at no. 635 in the 1940 hymnal. Everyone was singing it and I had great fun figuring out the 'pointing' and fitting the words on one page to the chant on the opposite page. It is astounding how people nowadays have become so piteously helpless and even deliberately clueless about such matters. Why, some of them even complain that they have to hold a hymnal at all.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 998
    And, as I continued on, we did add Antiphons to the Gradual, but only at the beginning and end, similar to the custom at the Office.

    During those years, I was still quite active tuning and servicing pipe organs, including many in Episcopal churches. I considered those musicians my friends, and would regularly bring them copies of OLW worship aids. Almost NONE of these churches were using true Anglican Chant, though some were using "simplified Anglican chant" from The Hymnal 1982. Within only a few years, I started noticing their worship aids including actual Anglican chant!

    Evidently they weren't going to be outdone by a small congregation of Catholics!
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • Ken of Sarum
    Posts: 186
    Among the many topics that my teachers, mentors and friends (Sirs George Guest, David Willcocks, Michael Nicolas, George Thalben-Ball, Erik Routley as well as others - sorry for the name dropping), and I covered, Anglican chant, regardless of what country among the Anglican Communion, was intended to be sung exclusively by the choir because of its performance challenges (which is a voluminous study in its own right) and historical traditional performance practices.

    May I respectfully point out the one should keep in mind, that throughout the Anglican churches world-wide, there have usually been two separate types of hymnals - those for choirs and another for congregational usage. Congregational hymnals rarely had music of any kind in them; on occasion perhaps the melody. Almost never did they have chants. Eventually, many churches opted to have instead in their pews, choir/choral hymnals. These hymnals of course had the full text and music of the services. Consider here the evolution in Catholic churches of the missalettes into hymnals like Worship I and II.

    Anglican choral hymnals were only a foundational base of music available. Choirs and their libraries generally had a wealth of music to select from and this includes both Plainsong and Anglican chants.

    It is not the norm in Anglican churches throughout the world-wide Communion that the congregations should sing Anglican chants. There are of course exceptions. Singing chants by congregations in Anglican Use churches is the exception and peculiar to this group.



  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 5,017
    Well spoken, Ken -
    I would only answer to your last sentence that 'it' is peculiar, also, to Episcopal churches.
    It should be noted, however, that the psalm at the eucharist in Episcopal churches nowadays is normally sung responsorially - with very decent chant-like responsories and Gregorian-toned verses. Anglican chant seems reserved for the office.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • MarkS
    Posts: 151
    Anglican chant seems reserved for the office.


    This tracks with my experience. When I first arrived at my present (Eastern US) Episcopal church, we were unexpectedly left for a week without a priest (long story), and so quickly pulled together Morning Prayer services for that Sunday. After consulting with the Deacon involved, we decided on congregational Anglican chant for the Jubilate Deo and the Venite, not knowing how it would go. Many folks came up afterwards and said 'we grew up singing the Psalms that way!' but on further questioning these folks were all mainly from 'Low' Episcopal backgrounds where having Morning Prayer on Sunday mornings was the norm. We have since decided that we would use Anglican chant for our Sunday Eucharist psalm, and it has gone well. Certainly when the congregation is chanting, we are very straightforward speech-rhythm-wise: we chant the Psalms exactly as the congregation would speak them in unison (and they're pretty good at it!). When it's just me and the choir, that of course is different!
  • ElizabethB
    Posts: 6
    OK-- Firstly, I LOVE THAT THIS SPACE EXISTS! B., We have discovered that the Merbecke Credo from my 1940 Hymnal-- is not correct. My husband and I will be altering the text this week-- But before we re-invent the wheel-- Is there a resource I should know about? We have the best priest, I spent a lot of time this week working with the choir, just saying the Credo in that very mono-tone in correct meter-- I of course, noticed that he was not chanting the "I believe in one God" -- I hadn't planned on bringing it up, but during our post Mass discussion, when he mentioned the lack of Holy and something else, I need to refer to my notes, I jokingly said, "well, as I was picking apart the Credo, I noticed that you are not chanting the beginning correctly-- Father Bartus is one of the most amazing men I will ever meet-- wiser beyond his years. I knew him when he was a Cleric at an Anglican Church and just knew that he was aware of the bigger plan.

    Sorry, Anyway, We are very far away of Anglican Chant-- but in order to keep my choir of baritones-- though I did mention today, i know that some of you are tenors!

    I thought today's Mass was a complete train wreck, but Father was very happy.

    I am finding this new role terribly fulfilling-- kind of lets me process a lot of pain I experienced living through the Episcopal church from 1969 to the present--
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • ElizabethB
    Posts: 6
    And I know about Anglican Chant being only sung by the choir-- that is what makes it so perfect
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 998
    "Consider here the evolution in Catholic churches of the missalettes into hymnals like Worship I and II."

    I beg to differ. The original Worship hymnal was published very early on after Vatican II. Its predecessor was the St. Gregory Hymnal, which was mostly for choir use, but some congregational hymns were included. It really depended on the participation of the various congregations pre-Vatican II. (Read "Why Catholics Can't Sing" by Thomas Day.) There were also other publishing companies supplying hymnals for congregations, most notably "Our Parish Prayes and Sings" by Liturgical Press in Collegeville. That's the one I grew up with. I had both Latin and English hymns, as well as all 18 Gregorian Masses, AND the entire Requiem Mass - not just in the choir edition, but in all editions. Maybe this was the exception, but it did exist. I hold that the entire movement of "Missalettes" is the devolution of the hymnal, not the other way around.


    "It is not the norm in Anglican churches throughout the world-wide Communion that the congregations should sing Anglican chants. There are of course exceptions. Singing chants by congregations in Anglican Use churches is the exception and peculiar to this group."

    While I do agree with the first sentence, I can tell you that, at least in the USA, there have been historically Episcopal parishes where Anglican chant was sung by the entire congregation. It is not solely an exception peculiar to the Anglican Use, or the Anglican Ordinariate in the US. IMO, if a congregation is so inclined as to join in on the Anglican chant, whether melody only or in harmony, they should be encouraged to do so. Also, there are two styles of performing the chant: with quite colorful organ accompaniment with a wide range of dynamics for an experienced choir, and a more straightforward accompaniment for a congregation. The latter would, of course, be more historic, but I draw the line at claiming it to me more correct.


    "May I respectfully point out the one should keep in mind, that throughout the Anglican churches world-wide, there have usually been two separate types of hymnals - those for choirs and another for congregational usage. etc."

    Again, I do not disagree. But I believe there is a clear demarcation between the singing traditions in the USA and all the rest of the Anglican Communion. American congregations have been more inclined to sing more of the liturgy at least for the last 150 years, and this shows in the hymnal publications during those times. At those same times, no chant or Mass (Communion) music was included in these world-wide publications. (Although, "The New English Hymnal" does included two Communion Settings.) And there is a distinct parallel with Catholic hymnals in America as compared to elsewhere, especially Great Britain. Many US Catholic hymnals have included at least some congregational music for the Mass, including Gregorian chant.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 998
    Thank you. I do understand. All I'm saying is that it is one thing to encourage choirs to perform Anglican Chant, to whatever standard they can achieve, for the musical beauty of the Liturgy. It is another thing to actively discourage 21st century congregations from attempting Anglican Chant for any reason. As in many things Theological, it should be an "and/both" rather than choosing sides on purely historical bases.
  • GerardH
    Posts: 26
    @ElizabethB If the day ever comes when you feel ready to attempt Anglican Chant, but you still only have a choir of four baritones, this scanned book, "The Academic Hymnal", may be of use. It has music for male voice choirs, intended for seminary use, and includes a handful of TTBB Anglican chants starting from page 298.