Latin Vesper Hymn during the Mass?
  • Dear CMAA Friends,

    Is it allowed to sing a Vesper Hymn during the Holy Mass in the extraordinary form?

    For example, at offertory.

    Thank you for your assistance,
    Thredboskier345.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,021
    We do on occasion. As long as the Proper is chanted, other music is at your discretion. I've never seen any edict against it. If it's Low Mass, it could even be in English. We do that as well.
  • stulte
    Posts: 355
    We've used the antiphon at the Magnificat from Vespers as a processional before our Missa Cantata. It's nice since the text is from the Gospel from the Mass
  • Thredboskier345,

    There isn't a rule against such a thing, to the best of my knowledge, but certain principles do apply.

    1) At a sung Mass (of any degree, I think) the Propers and the Ordinary take precedence over any other music -- so before we add the Vespers hymn, the rest should be chanted -- even if it's recto tono.

    2) The singing of the Vespers Hymn would need to not unduly prolong the Mass. (If you keep the action of the Mass delayed because you're busy doing "extra" stuff, this is not proper, but a polyphonic ordinary doesn't violate this principle, because you're still singing the Mass.

    3) Rationally (but I don't know if there's a decree to this effect) the Vespers hymn, whenever it is sung, would have to be proper to the season, at least. So, we couldn't sing the Vespers hymn for Paschaltide in Septuagesima, just to use a silly example.

    4) Some people argue (and I tend to agree with them, at the cost of bushels of scorn heaped upon my head, because I remember reading an official document to this effect) that nothing in the vernacular belongs between the initial sign of the cross and the Last Gospel, at a sung Mass. Low Mass with hymns, which should be exceptional, if I recall correctly, allows vernacular hymns.
    Thanked by 1Cantus67
  • Cantus67Cantus67
    Posts: 207
    1) At a sung Mass (of any degree, I think) the Propers and the Ordinary take precedence over any other music -- so before we add the Vespers hymn, the rest should be chanted -- even if it's recto tono.

    2) The singing of the Vespers Hymn would need to not unduly prolong the Mass. (If you keep the action of the Mass delayed because you're busy doing "extra" stuff, this is not proper, but a polyphonic ordinary doesn't violate this principle, because you're still singing the Mass.

    3) Rationally (but I don't know if there's a decree to this effect) the Vespers hymn, whenever it is sung, would have to be proper to the season, at least. So, we couldn't sing the Vespers hymn for Paschaltide in Septuagesima, just to use a silly example.

    4) Some people argue (and I tend to agree with them, at the cost of bushels of scorn heaped upon my head, because I remember reading an official document to this effect) that nothing in the vernacular belongs between the initial sign of the cross and the Last Gospel, at a sung Mass. Low Mass with hymns, which should be exceptional, if I recall correctly, allows vernacular hymns.



    Yep, agree.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,959
    (4) is something for which I am flexible, at Communion especially. Fine, it is increasingly an integral part of the liturgy even in the TLM world, but there might be a time where a vernacular hymn works well. No one died at Christmas when the choir sang “Stille Nacht” in German at communion during the solemn Mass during the night.
  • Okay folks, thanks heaps for the pointers!

    TS.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    We usually sing Office Hymns at our TLM, both after the Offertory Proper and during Communion. We usually try to find a Hymn that fits either the Season e.g. Christmas, the month e.g. Sacred Heart or a Hymn for the Saint of the day.

    Depending on the melody and metre most 5/6 verse hymns will fit in the time available, longer Hymns are sometimes needed for Communion, the Ambrosian 9 verse Vesper Hymns are quite good for this.
  • Like tomjaw, we often chant a Vespers or Lauds hymn after the Offertorium and during Communion, or a Magnificat (especially at the 6 pm EF at our parish). Check out Cantus selecti and Mass and Vespers, both of which are available at musicasacra.com.

    I happen to know how long each of our priests in the parishes where we sing takes for Offertory at Low Mass and High Mass, so I choose accordingly :-)
  • Antonio
    Posts: 43
    When the Mass is highly festive (1st class) and occurs at weekend or holiday with a numerous attendance, sometimes I program for Communion/Ablutions the Comm. antiphon, the Vespers hymn of the Feast, followed by the Magnificat antiphon and Magnificat itself, in alternatim with polyphony or organ versets. It's a 10-15 min program, depending on how long is the hymn and the alternatim versets, but a very beautiful of liturgy music, performed as cantus varii sequence.