Mass Setting by John Merbecke?
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,021
    I attended the Anglican Ordinariate Mass in Manchester, UK, last Sunday. They used the Merbecke Communion Setting from the New English Hymnal. Has anyone set the ICEL text to this yet - in either the H-1940 or H-1982 versions? If not, that's my next project.

    N.B. I would prefer to use it as is, especially since it IS part of Catholic Liturgy now, being used in the Anglican Ordinariate. But I believe we are not yet allowed to do so. Therefore I'm not going to be the one to suggest to my Pastor that we sing it "as is".
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,046
    There IS a Mass setting by John Merbecke (as opposed to a retread of the Communion Service for use in the Mass), Missa Per arma justitie
    http://www.cardinallsmusick.com/music/complete-latin-church-music

    I was kind of disappointed that this isn't about that. But good luck in your search.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,021
    Thanks. But we're looking for an ICEL text Mass setting for the congregation to use. We who drive automobiles shun retreads for our cars, but large trucks use them all the time. The Merbecke melody is time tested - at least in Anglican circles, which now overlap Catholic circles.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    About using Merbecke as is in the Roman rite: true, it IS Catholic now, but I don't think that it's kosher (as in 'licit') to ritually borrow from one Catholic use or rite to another. This would be like substituting something from the Maronite rite as a ritual part of a Roman rite mass. I don't think that this can be done. I do stand to be corrected.

    Romanising it textually presents problems because of the paucity of syllables in Roman texts. How to fit the computeresque 'Lord, have mercy' to music conceived for the gracious 'Lord, have mercy upon us' is quite a challenge. Giving 'Lord' the first three notes and 'have' the next two would work, but would be artless and rather clumsy.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,021
    Thanks. Jackson. I agree that mixing the rites is not the best, although what the Ordinariate has is SO MUCH better than ICEL.

    We're mostly looking fora congregation-friendly "Gloria", but I would attempt to do the entire Setting. I do have an idea on the "Kyrie" problem. I'll share them with you when I get them done.

    I just wanted to check here before re-inventing the wheel!
  • bangerman
    Posts: 45
    Steve, I believe the Co-Cathedral of the Sacred Heart in Houston has used the Merbecke adapted to the new ICEL text in the past few years. You might try contacting their director to see if you can get their setting.
    Thanked by 1Steve Collins
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    At Walsingham, as you probably know, we pair the 'Old Scottish Chant' Gloria with the Merbecke during non-festal and non-poenitential seasons. I have nothing at all against the 'Old Scottish Chant', but resent this because we should be singing the Merbecke Gloria, but there seems to be resistance somewhere along the chain of command. This is yet another instance at which a 'stepping stone' has become pavement. A pox on stepping stones.

    In the same vein we have become addicted to singing the creed recto tono instead of to the Sarum version which is in the back of the 1940 and which most 'high church' people and all Anglo-Catholics know. Atonement sings the Sarum creed and we, the cathedral church, don't. There is something not right about this.

    Let me know how your project turns out. I'd love to see the results.

    Thanked by 3Steve Collins CGM CHGiffen
  • CGM
    Posts: 683
    A pox on stepping stones.


    This made me laugh out loud.
    Thanked by 2Richard Mix M. Jackson Osborn
  • CGM
    Posts: 683
    Steve, I'd also be interested in seeing what you do here.
    Thanked by 1Steve Collins
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    I ICEL-ated the Merbecke Glory to God -- it's here on the Forum, you can search for it.
    Thanked by 1Steve Collins
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    ...out loud.

    I have always sensed that, regarding people who are suggesting this and that as a 'stepping stone', the 'stepping stone' was tacitly thought in the back (or front) of their minds of as final - a sop that would lead nowhere - a means of avoiding the goal.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 542
    E. g. Rossini-type propers.
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,021
    We began here with straight Rossini Propers, although I actually put them into finale so I could do one at a time AND choose which tone I wanted to use.

    When we added the Introit Antiphon Reprise using the Recto Tono, I had the choir sing in SATB.

    That evolved into using Anglican single chants for that and the Psalm verses, thereby alternatim between Gregorian and Anglican chants.

    Now we generally chant the Introit Antiphon from the GR, Psalm in Ang., Doxology in Greg., Antiphon in Ang., with the latter being chosen to segue immediately into whatever polyphonic "Kyrie" we're using.

    Rossini Propers CAN be used as stepping stones.

    We also now add Communion Verses to the repeated Communion Antiphon.

    All are accompanied.
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 429
    I believe this is the thread Salieri was referring to, which has the ICEL-ed Merbecke Gloria: http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/discussion/12381/glory-to-god-icel-john-merbecke/p1
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