Henri Dumont Messe du huitieme ton
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 5,109
    Does anyone have the complete music for Gloria of Dumont's messe pour les dames religieuses - in the 8th tone?
    I want to use it on a recital alternatim-style with Gaspard Corrette's organ mass. I found a good recording from which to transcribe this, but one crucial verse was missing - the penultimate one.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 1,298
    This unfortunately isn't in the Cinq Messes at Gallica (a search of this forum is the quickest way to get there) nor do I spot it amid the astounding curiosities of Nouveau recueil de messes anciennes et nouvelles en plain-chant ordinaire. Oxford Music Online omits the Henri Dumont article (Plein-chant musical & Neo-gallican chant articles skip him as well), perhaps I'll have time to fetch a bound NG tonight...
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  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 5,109
    There is a recording on youtube by Lionel Bernard of Gaspard Corrette's only surviving organ mass. It is excellently played with alternatim chant in the huitieme ton said to be by Henri Dumont. It certainly is not one of the Gregorian masses. I have been able to transcribe it from the recording, but, unfortunately, the penultimate verse of the chant is missing. Thanks would be generously bestowed upon anyone who can supply this want.
  • Cantus67Cantus67
    Posts: 129
    I was able to find this but I'm not sure it's any more than what's posted above.

    http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b9009986q
  • Josh
    Posts: 41
    Are you sure this is a Mass by Dumont? So far as I am aware, he only composed five Masses in the style of plainchant, which became known after his death as Messes Royales: those in the first (the Messe Royale par excellence), second, fourth, fifth and sixth tones; of these, only the first, second and sixth were republished in chant notation in the twentieth century, as a supplement to the Liber Usualis. I have seen the music for his Messe Royale in the first tone mislabelled as being in the eighth tone, which may explain the problem. I append the Gloria from each of his five Masses (three of which I have marked with dots to match the Polish organ accompaniment available elsewhere on this site), so you can check if it is one of these. I certainly have never found reference to any other plainchant Masses by Dumont.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 5,109
    Josh -

    Many thanks for this! The Gloria sung on the Lionel Bernard youtube version is the Dumont one in the sixth tone. Curious, because Corrette's organ pieces are in the eighth tone, which, for all practical purposes here is the key of G. However, Dumont's sixth tone mass fits perfectly with it on Bernard's youtube performance.

    I can see now that Bernard omits in gloria dei patris. Amen, and simply plays the last two of Corrette's versets one right after the other, which I think is not right. I shall have my schola sing in gloria dei patris, followed by the last organ verset standing in for amen.

    You have been enormously helpful. Thanks so much!!!
  • Josh
    Posts: 41
    No worries at all! I have been hoping to have our little schola learn Dumont's Mass in the sixth tone, which I rather like, but members of the congregation prevailed upon us to turn to the Missa de Angelis instead. Sigh.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 5,109
    Acchhh! Missa de Angelis is sooooo old hat.
    And! You wouldn't want to get Fr Columba started about it.
    I guess one could consider it (and the orbis factor kyrie) a nice vocalise - nothing more.

    Listen to the youtube version of the Corrette-Dumont I mention above.
    I'm sure you'd like it.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,224
    The Kyrie of Mass XI has a more ancient pedigree than that of Mass VIII...
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 5,109
    Orbis factor's Kyrie A does indeed have an older pedigree, but is only a little more interesting than the much later variant, Kyrie B, which is hardly more than an amusing vocalise for musically challenged folk.

    As for De Angelis, well, anything I say about it wouldn't hold a candle to the excoriations on offer from Fr Columba - excoriations well deserved.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,224
    Which is A & which is B? The one included in the Graduale Romanum with Mass XI is of a later origin than the one included in the chants ad libitum, but AFAIK is still older than de Angelis by at least a century. Certainly it’s taken from the chant which Solesmes marks ad libitum.

    Also, tropes and organum make it more interesting. :)
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 5,109
    I refer to the A & B as given in Graduale Triplex. The sole one appearing in Liber Usualis corresponds to Kyrie B of the GT, which is downright modern - an incredibly facile variant of the earlier version in GT.
  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 335
    Both Kyrie's for Orbis factor are included in the Liber Usualis; indeed they both appear also in the Graduale Romanum (1908). It is just that the older one is in the Cantus ad Libitum section of the Kyriale, where it is number X.
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  • tomjaw
    Posts: 969
    Orbis factor is in the Sarum books...I think these versions are rather good, of course most of you are banned from singing the Troped version.
    Scans from the Graduale Sarisburiensis, 1508.
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    559 x 340 - 96K
    556 x 164 - 47K
    559 x 164 - 42K
  • Josh
    Posts: 41
    I have consoled myself with the thought that Credo III, which of course we will sing with Mass VIII, is just as late (17th C.) as Dumont's Messe du 6e ton (1669), which I had hoped to use instead. If it ain't Baroque...
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