Your Dream Mass Programme
  • What would be your dream Mass music programme?
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  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,675
    Depends on what the liturgy is for, but the Durufle Requiem would definitely be my ideal for that particular Mass.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 3,868
    Pierluigi's Marcelli with chanted Propers. Period.
  • CantorSJVCantorSJV
    Posts: 3
    This is a moot point for me, because the organist with which I work chooses music from a book provided by the Oregon Catholic Press, which also supplies our hymnals.

    A dream Mass music program for me would be one that does NOT include any of the following:

    The Prayer of St. Francis (It is a beautiful prayer, but not a beautiful melody)
    Glory and Praise to Our God
    On Eagle's Wings (This was one of my mother's favorite hymns, but it is not one of mine.)
    I Am the Bread of Life (Awkward to sing for someone with a high voice, and not worth the trouble. "Lift High the Cross" is also awkward to sing, but it's a nice hymn.)
    Blessed Are They (How to trivialize The Beatitudes in one easy lesson.)
    Be Not Afraid

    I am a paid Leader of Song, but, to me, it is not just a job. I am also taking part in the Mass, which is the highest form of prayer. It is up to me to make the hymns meaningful, even if I don't like them and find them trivial. I always try to put heart and soul into my church singing, and to sing as well as I can at the moment, in order to help the congregation members get into a spirit of prayer. Sometimes this means biting the bullet and singing something I hate. So be it!

    What would I like to hear in church sometime? The Poulenc Gloria! This could never be done at a Mass, because it's too long, but it would make a wonderful piece for a church concert, if a good choir, a good soprano and a good orchestra could be put together.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,134
    It does really depend on the liturgy, because some demand consistency in repertoire, others can be a bit of a mish–mash, others can have more polyphony...

    But my ideal for a day like St. Anne, for Solemn High Mass, would be chanted propers and a Flemish or even English late medieval/Renaissance polyphonic Mass (so perhaps a chanted Kyrie, but with organum) which one would be hard–pressed to justify on a Sunday or holy day of obligation. It would have to be long and complex, but with a really tight cantua firmus. I don’t have a particular one in mind, FWIW.
  • In the current state of Church Music in Chile, I just dream with a full Gregorian chanted mass.
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 715
    Our Parish priest, singing all his parts. Our congregation singing all of theirs - any Gregorian Mass would do. My family choir singing. (as opposed to gazing around distractedly etc etc etc.)
    But most of my actual dream masses are nightmares - you know the ones where you have forgotten something important - like clothes.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,190
    I've been to my favourites... the EF Masses at the Colloquiums I have attended. Heavenly... all of them.
  • RomanticStrings
    Posts: 299
    I would love to sing a Mass from the Simplex. All the Order sung to simple or solemn tones (consistently), a Simplex Ordinary, and the appropriate Simplex Propers. I wish that were the default (and financially possible) Mass. Then some programs evolving to Romanum Propers as possible. Additional music as necessary and possible.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 394
    Our Parish priest, singing all his parts. No I am not looking for miracles, just what Holy Mother Church expects. Our congregation singing all of theirs - any Simplex Mass would do.
    Meanwhile, in another part of the galaxy diocese there's this. That's OK as a concert, very glad they did not try to do it as liturgy.
  • The Poulenc Gloria! This could never be done at a Mass, because it's too long

    Good point to discuss.

    It is not out of the realm of possibility - People who love the liturgy and music for years would choose to attend the High Mass on Sundays. On a special Feast, with due notice to the congregation - and community - the singing of the Arvo Part Messe, or the Poulenc, or other extended works, there is absolutely no reason not to do such music.

    It does not "prolong" the liturgy, it further enhances the liturgy, just as Adoration is a prolonged moment in the Presence.

    If the pastor is convinced of the importance of music, and its use as an evangelistic tool, it can work.

    How many have converted, attracted by the beauty of the experience of the Liturgy, in the history of the Church.

    As many have left for the lack? The negatives can be offset by positive experience.

    Be enthused.
    Thanked by 1StimsonInRehab
  • JaredOstermann
    Posts: 341
    Increasingly, my dream is:

    The entire Mass is sung. As the choir director: Open Graduale Romanum. Sing everything assigned to the day. Thank God and the Church for the Graduale. Move on with life.
  • JaredOstermann
    Posts: 341
    Oh - and a chant ordinary appropriate to the day or season.
    Thanked by 1Aristotle Esguerra
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 2,024
    Re Poulenc Gloria.

    I think CantorSJV is referring to the multi-movement "Gloria" (modelled after Vivaldi's similar work), rather than the Gloria from his "Messe en Sol", correct?

    While I would encourage the liturgical use of Poulenc's Mass, I wouldn't recommend the huge Gloria with orchestra -- unless it were at a Mass with a very select congregation.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 721
    I never bought the whole "Mass isn't supposed to be a concert" argument. What, you don't think the Almighty likes concerts too? :D
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 721
    As far as dream mass program - hard to choose, since a lot of it depends on my current state of mind. At the moment (and this could change in an hour or so) . . . French Romantic ordinary, Renaissance motets, chant propers. And hymns before and after. Well . . . maybe Terce before and a hymn after.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 4,807
    ...on my current state of mind.

    I, too, would have to express this sentiment.
    But, contrary to Stimson, I would never want a French (or any other) romantic ordinary.
    This would not be dream, but a nightmare.

    Dream components, which can change with 'state of mind' are renaissance polyphonic ordinaries (more Moneverdi-ish or Gabrielian than Palestrinan - though one shouldn't want to overlook RVW's mass in g-minor).

    Polychoral motets are the ideal for ornaments. Never to be overlooked would be Tallis or Gibbons, or Byrd, or Weelkes, or....

    Depending on 'state of mind' it might include hymns and propers, or just propers, which may be plainchant or polyphony-choral. Hymns would be graced with descants and organ embellishments.

    Organ voluntaries of a suitable gravitas are a must.

    Priests and deacons would sing every last syllable of their parts - as would the people - nor would any imaginable part of the mass be delivered but by song or chant.
    Not one single non-ritual utterance or act would even be dreamt of by anyone, high or low. (Those who violate this inviolable principal should be exiled to a barren and gruesomely remote south Atlantic island.)

    Smoke would be thrown in great profusion by at least one thuribler - who knows well how to do what we Anglicans call 'Queen Annes' and does them with aplomb.

    Still - there are days on which I would be gladdened with an all plainchant mass, sung by choice French monks.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,331
    on my current state of mind.

    sing every last syllable

    My Homer Simpson mind is currently occupied by this Monty Python skit.
    Thanked by 1bhcordova
  • Prelude: Bach, Prelude and Fugue in F (bwv 540)
    Gregorian propers
    Ordinary:Frank Martin, Mass for Double Choir
    Processional Hymn: Lobe den Herren
    Offertory Anthem: Wesley, Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace
    Offertory Hymn: Ewing
    Communion anthem: Bairstow, Let all mortal flesh keep silence
    Communion hymn: Divine Mysteries
    Recessional Hymn: Sine Nomine
    Postlude: Gigout, Grand Choir Dialogue

    Brass and timpani where appropriate
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 2,024
    Currently, I think it would include the following

    Asperges: Mode IV version from Kyriale
    Propers: from Graduale
    Ordinary: Monteverdi Missa In Illo Tempore a6 (with colla parte wind band)
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 721
    This would not be dream, but a nightmare.


    Yeah, I often get the feeling that my "dream mass programs" would be synonymous with my entries in the "guilty pleasures" thread.

    Although I will concede - it would be satisfying to hear Gjeilo's Sunrise Mass in a liturgical setting.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 4,807
    Some famous XIXth century man of letters whose name isn't coming to me just now once said that in heaven the angels sing Bach when praising God, but, en famille, they play Mozart.
    Thanked by 1Choirparts
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 1,253
    That quote is from a book occasioned by the 1956 bicentennial, but sure enough Barth was born before 1901. I have to work hard not to confuse him with Barthes ;-)
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 980
    Jackson, the man in question you write about is Karl Barth, the great Protestant theologian.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 4,807
    Ha!
    At least I remembered that it started with a 'B'.
  • RomanticStrings
    Posts: 299
    I heard an addition, that for fun, the angels would play Haydn.
  • Antonio
    Posts: 21
    Depends on what the liturgy is for, but the Durufle Requiem would definitely be my ideal for that particular Mass.


    We did the Palestrina Pro Defunctis, a 5, last saturday for the soul of a person deceased 4 months ago, among two cantus varii by Victoria (Taedet animam meam) and Fauré (In Paradisum). The priest said that was one of the most beautiful Masses among many ones he celebrated or attended in the past. We were asked to do it only 5 days before the Mass but an small miracle-like thing occurred and we managed to recruit five good singers to do the job.