Ash Wednesday gospel acclamation - did I plagiarise?
  • JesJes
    Posts: 575
    Ok, so I wrote a gospel acclamation for Wednesdays Ash Wednesday mass and I'm pretty proud of it but it sounds like just about everything else I've ever heard.
    I just don't know what.
    Can someone please tell me?
    I'll attach in the comments!
  • JesJes
    Posts: 575
    I can't work out what it's from.
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  • MarkS
    Posts: 282
    The first four measures are very reminiscent of one of the main musical themes from the musical 'Into The Woods.' (Not so much that I would call it plagiarized—wouldn't have occurred to me if you hadn't asked.) Are you a Sondheim fan? Perhaps someone has another idea.

    This does happen to me all the time—an idea will occur to me that sounds particularly good or 'right,' and I will immediately panic, assume I am accidentally quoting music I am familiar with, and then spend a lot of time trying to figure out where the idea came from. Although, really, it's not whether you may have inadvertently borrowed something—it's what you do with it that counts!
    Thanked by 1Jes
  • JesJes
    Posts: 575
    @MarkS thanks! I didn't think of the into the woods stuff. I do know that the Hymn "Bread of life" is pretty much the first four notes repeated over and over again and it's the same dorian mode.

    I've never been satisfied with the music for the gospel acclamation because often the response part seems to be slightly different from what is in the missal. So I followed what universalis had to say for the words and I liked the result of what I sang immediately. I think it shows my irish background a bit.
  • Bobby Bolin
    Posts: 417
    The beginning reminds me of the gospel acclamation from the Mass of Light.

    Link
    Thanked by 2Jes Spriggo
  • JesJes
    Posts: 575
    Wow @BobbyBolin it's literally the whole thing without the middle bit... or guitars...
    oh no! Okay so writers of the Mass of Light, sorry I'm not for profit over here please don't sue me!!
  • Bobby Bolin
    Posts: 417
    The meter, key, and rhythm are not the same, though.
    Thanked by 1Jes
  • contemporaryworship92
    Posts: 257
    How new a work of music needs to be is a grey area. Music is full of creative remixing.
    Thanked by 1Jes
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Fret not, Jes!
    Plagiarising is, by definition, a purposeful, not an accidental act.
    Plagiarising happens when one deliberately absconds in whole or in part with another's work and consciously presents it as his or her own. You haven't done this. The possibilities for a motive from A's work just happening innocently to appear in something written by B are endless. There are, after all, just so many permutations (though the number of them would be astronomical) of the degrees of our diatonic or twelve tone series, our harmonic vocabularies, even of our rhythmic vocabulary, assuring that coincidences in one's own work or in each others' work cannot but happen from time to time. I would not give this further concern.

    Further, it is not at all uncommon for B deliberately to quote something from A's work in a symphony, a sonata, or such. This happens from time to time amongst even the greatest composers. It is assumed that everyone can discern this when it happens and is considered to be a collegial act of respect and an honour - one might say 'a tip of the hat'.
    Thanked by 4Casavant Organist CHGiffen CCooze Jes
  • contemporaryworship92
    Posts: 257
    There comes a point where you have to get permission for creating a derivative work or list the author of the original as a co-author of your work. I do not know where that point is. Point being, even if you had something 65% identical to something already out there, all you need to do is give credit where credit is due, and possibly get a copyright permission.
    Thanked by 1Jes
  • JesJes
    Posts: 575
    Ok well in that case, novus ordo people feel free to use my gospel acclamation. It's a lot of fun, I don't need any credit, but if you know someone I've ripped it off from then please tell me along the way. :)
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Don't worry about it. You are not publishing it for profit.
    Thanked by 1Jes
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Publishing it or sharing it even not for profit is an infringement if it cuts in any way into sales of the copyright work.

    The government does not prosecute copyright infringment, the damaged party sues at their discretion.

    The party with the most money wins.
    Thanked by 1Jes
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,371
    The US goverment has recently been seeking to extradite on-line publishers from Europe. Best check this list of criminal penalties.
    Thanked by 1Jes
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Jes is from Australia. They'd have a hard time catching her amongst all the scary critters out there.
    Thanked by 3CharlesW M. Jackson Osborn Jes
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    And those Australians have so much attitude, they can be more dangerous than the critters.

    Thanked by 2M. Jackson Osborn Jes
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,371
    What Richard O'Dwyer did was all done in the UK, hosted in the UK, and not illegal in the UK. But he was compelled to appear in court in the US.
    [I do not think this case is in any way comparable to a possible similarity among tunes, or relevant to it, but who knows what some arm of the US Government might think.]
    Thanked by 1Jes
  • JesJes
    Posts: 575
    Ah!!!!
    @ryand there was a red back spider on my school kids high altar the other day (I'm building it)
    @CharlesW too true us blueys are dangerous folk!

    I know copyright in Aus is different, probably closest to Canadian copyright? But I still feel like this is sadly so unoriginal and I love writing original stuff, it just goes against my grain. At least it's useful haha.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    The difficulty with copyright infringement accusation is that you may have done nothing wrong and have to spend a life's fortune and more, possibly losing everything, to attempt to prove this.

    Unlike being charged by the government in court - which has some controls - this is filed by an individual or company who can put all their resources into destroying you. It may be done for publicity and for spite. I agree with Jeffrey Tucker that it an awful thing. But I know that without it, musicians would rarely get paid for their work.
    Thanked by 1Jes
  • TimTheEnchanterTimTheEnchanter
    Posts: 195
    It sounds like "My Little Pony."
    Thanked by 3Casavant Organist CharlesW Jes
  • Casavant Organist
    Posts: 800
    We should all launch a giant lawsuit against Dan Schutte.
    This text probably doesn't have to be purple...
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Jes
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Shame! Shame!
    Clearly, as any child could discern, this is lifted right out of the Benedictus of Machaut's Messe de Notre Dame.

    Brahms is said to have said scoldingly to some fellow so unfortunate as to have dared inform him that a certain motiv in one of his works was identical to that in another's previous work that 'any ass can hear that'.
    Thanked by 3JL Spriggo Jes
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Well, it's legal to copy from Machaut :-)
    Thanked by 5M. Jackson Osborn CHGiffen CharlesW noel jones, aago Jes
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