After 6 years - Review of Mass Settings

contemporaryworship92

After 6 years worth of of the new translation of the mass, I figured it was a good time for some discussion of what has worked and what has failed.

I've personally played the following mass settings for congregations:
-Mass of Renewal by Curtis Stephan
-Mass of St. Anne by Ed Bolduc
-Revised Mass of Creation by Marty Haugen

Congregations are willing to sing all three of these, but the best results have been with Mass of Renewal (note- there is another mass of Renewal by William Gokelman and David Kauffman; I've been in the congregation several times when it was played and it always came off flat). I also personally feel that despite the grandness of the Gloria of St. Anne that it is a step too far down the road of straight imitation of rock. However, St. Anne has exceptional harmony between text and music.

Integrating what I've played with what I've heard in congregations while traveling and online, I recommend the following within their genre:

Contemporary:
1. Mass of Renewal by Curtis Stephan
2. Mass of Communion by Matt Maher
3. Mass of St. Anne by Ed Bolduc

Blended:
-Mass of Wisdom by Steven Janco
-Revised Mass of Creation by Marty Haugen
-Mass of Christ the Savior by Dan Schutte

Traditional:
-Psallite Mass by Collegeville Composers
-Mass in Honor of St. Isaac Jogues by Jeff Ostrowski

Here is my full review, with videos for each setting. I also mention the two settings I have found to be the worst: Storrington Mass by Marty Haugen, which is a poor imitation of Mass of Creation, and Mass of Joy and Peace, which sounds like a nursery rhyme.

http://contemporaryorthodoxy.weebly.com/blog/best-catholic-mass-settings

Many thanks to Adam Wood for his reviews of the mass settings from back in 2011! They are linked to in my blog post and informed by thinking in writing it.

Casavant Organist

Mass of Christ the Saviour. I heard that recently and I couldn't help bursting out laughing.

For those unfamiliar, the setting is known as the "My Little Pony Mass" or "Missa Mannula Mea" (I hope I got that right!)

contemporaryworship92

You should listen to the original recording with an open mind. It's had it's reputation damaged by bad parish execution. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-OWTbmuRE8

Richard Mix

Thank you, Casevant. I am now retrieving my coffee from its safe perch.

NihilNominis

1. Mass of Wisdom. This is perhaps my highest recommendation of any of these, with the caveat that I have only ever heard recordings of it online. The text and music fit each other perfectly, and it is a work of undeniable beauty. My only criticism is that the melodies are not particularly memorable. I should point out that from listening to this it seems to me that it would take a choir with some talent to pull this off - this would be a much more meager work without the harmonies you hear the the recordings. Recordings are available with both organ and piano accompaniment. I highly recommend that any parish with the requisite talent give this a shot.

This was a setting that I read from an assembly sheet while visiting another parish and dismissed out of hand. Then I moved to a parish that used it as their festival setting, and I'm sold out on it. The congregation love it, the choir sing it with gusto--it is challenging and rewarding--and the brass parts are top-notch.

Casavant Organist

Thanks for that recording, jclangfo. I was making a (sort of well known) joke about the mass.

I've actually heard multiple "choirs" sing the Mass of Renewal. It fits exactly the ideal contemporary style with those suspensions at the end of phrases. Nonetheless, I don't believe that it would at all be appropriate, not because of its (non-existent) lack of simplicity, but rather because of its use of the piano. The organ is simply more suited to any church environment and is the instrument of the Roman Rite.

Mass of Creation is very well known and I don't personally mind it, but it should absolutely be played with organ and not piano/guitar. It isn't a bad setting, and since it is so well known it seems to be able to be adapted to a congregation looking for a general-purpose mass setting for a priest or choir director who may be opposed to chant or polyphony (which might take up too much time for some).

I've never heard the Mass of Wisdom until now, and it is remarkable. It is the first "contemporary" mass that I've heard which deserves a place in churches. It employs the use of organ, and of choirs in harmony. It is also musically interesting, so not to leave a congregation bored (although this should not be the focus of the music).

Mass of Christ the Saviour has always been a problem for me. Not only does the Gloria resemble the theme for My Little Pony, but it employs the use of piano and guitar. The brass parts do work well musically. Overall, I would prefer this one the least.

As a starting point, I would always recommend using the ICEL chant mass. It is English, thus adaptable to the congregation's understanding and is simple musically, thus being easy to memorize for a choir or congregation.

canadash

Since Casavant mentioned the ICEL chant mass, I'll mention the Gloria I like which is the ICEL setting for Canada:

http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/uploads/2011/10/CIS_5.3-1 Gloria, chant (choral%20setting).pdf

This works very well in our parish. We use it for ordinary time.

(I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, but you will have to copy and paste the link.)

KyleM18

The "my little pony" mass is quite popular here in southern california. When done right (aka the installation of Bishop Vann) it is on par with other festive congregational mass settings, and its harder to mess than most other "contemporary" settings. I enjoy the Mass of Wisdom, and am glad to have seen it used more often.

Per the bishop's request, my high school switched from S&S's Mass of Renewal to MH's Mass of Creation with string trio and piano, and will hopefully have it with organ, string quintet, and small wind ensemble.

My favorite mass settings, though, are Mass for the City (Proulx), Mass IHO St. Ignatius (Weissman), Mass of the Immaculate Conception (Latona), and Mass IHO St. (Pope?) John Paul II (Clark). With a "contemporary" ensemble, I'd use Walker's Mass of St. Paul the Apostle, which I feel is adaptable and well worth the difficulty.

Casavant Organist

Mass for the City is interesting. It's festive and great for a celebration, employs the organ, and is easy for a congregation to sing strong.

A Community Mass seems to be much the same.

I still can't stand Missa Mannula Mea.

Don9of11

In my parish of St. Paul, Cleveland Diocese, current we are using Mass of St. Frances Cabrini. We have also used:

Mass of St. Ralph Sherwin
Mass of Renewal
Mass of St. Paul the Apostle
Mass of St. Joseph
Missa Emmanuel
Mass of Joy and Peace

Also the Mass of Jubilate Deo (Mass XVI and XVIII), which we sing sometimes during Lent and Advent.

Mass of St. Paul the Apostle and Mass of St. Frances Cabrini are both diocesan requirements. I have to say my preference is for Mass of St. Ralph Sherwin, Missa Emmanuel and Mass of Jubilate Deo.

I was raised in a very traditional and devotional parish of St. Mary's until it closed and we kept the Latin and devotional hymns unlike some parish who thru the "baby out with the bath water".

There are some beautiful Latin Masses (IMHO) by Korman, La Hache, Mentzel, Cremer, Wiegand and others (ah the good old days) that the Big 3, as they have affectionately been referred to, would not want you to know about. These Masses would be no more difficult to learn than the Masses I listed above.

Caleferink

Since my diocese did not mandate or even recommend any particular Mass setting(s), I'll stick to what I currently use at my parish:

Roman Missal chants (Kyrie, Sanctus, Mystery of Faith) w/ revised Congregational Mass Gloria (Lee) & Agnus Dei XVIII
revised Mass of Redemption (Janco)
Mass of Wisdom (also Janco - I sort of inherited this one)

Sadly, I get the feeling that mine is the only parish in the diocese that uses any of the RM chants. I probably would use the Gloria from it as well, but I had a bit of an ulterior motive for using the revised Congregational Mass (that motive did not pan out, unfortunately, but I decided to keep it anyway).

I learned that the parish used the old Mass of Redemption at one point in time (and I had used it at the parish I assisted at in college), so I gave the revised one a look and decided to try it out. The Gloria is completely redone (it was responsorial, now it's through-composed, which I highly prefer), and with organ has a sense of "nobility" to it. The people here sing that with gusto.

As I mentioned, I sort of inherited Mass of Wisdom (they had started to learn it before my predecessor left), so I took it up. At first I was kind of apathetic to it, but it has since grown on me nicely.

At diocesan liturgies I think we seem to mostly use the revised setting of Proulx's Community Mass for the Sanctus, Mystery of Faith, and Amen with either the Litany of the Saints Kyrie or Kyrie XVI in alternatim with a short polyphonic setting, a revised setting of the Gloria from A New Mass for Congregations (Carroll - he was a local, actually), and Agnus XVIII again in alternatim. I think we've also used Warner's Mass of Charity and Love (adapted from the hymn "Where Charity and Love Prevail").

A final observation: it seems that, with a few exceptions (the Proulx Masses in particular), revising old settings to fit the new translations has been the proverbial putting new wine into old skins. The Mass of Redemption I use had enough "new" in it for me to consider and use, but other than these I don't think I'd touch one of the "revised" settings anymore.

CharlesW

You should listen to the original recording with an open mind. It's had it's reputation damaged by bad parish execution.

It has had its reputation damaged by the fact that Schutte is an outright plagiarist who passes off the work of others as his own. My Little Pony, Here I am Lord -she's over there lord- they're across the street lord/Brady Bunch theme. I wouldn't buy anything he "writes."

CharlesW

Happily using the Roman Missal Chants exclusively since 2011, except for Lent when we change to a Latin setting. Never has been heard a discouraging word and the people and pastor are pleased.

contemporaryworship92

I think accusing Schutte of plagiarism is uncharitable. If you look hard enough you can find similar older music to a newer piece and then argue that the newer is "copied" from the older.

Just because House of the Rising Sun has exactly the same meter as Amazing Grace (meaning that you can sing Amazing Grace to this tune) does not mean that the Animals copied John Newton.

If we want to be consistent, we should criticize the people who actually set religious words to folk songs, like the authors of Be Thou My Vision (Slane).

TimTheEnchanter

If you look hard enough you can find similar older music to a newer piece and then argue that the newer is "copied" from the older.

I second this emotion. There's no reason to believe that things like MoCtS/"My Little Pony" are more than mere coincidence, but that doesn't stop people from going all Zapruder film on these pieces. And basic psychology tells us that when you're looking for evidence of something that fits your view, there's a good chance you'll find it, regardless of whether it's actually there.

Really, often the criticisms are silly, anyway. There's been at least one time where somebody said that "Here I Am, Lord," was based on the soundtrack to "Jurassic Park." Of course, "Here I Am, Lord," came out well before "Jurassic Park." Guess John Williams must have ripped off Dan Schutte.

chonak

Nah; we all know that the "Brady Bunch" theme came before both.

CharlesW

I would give Schutte some space if he only did it once. But twice? Whose tune will he hack next?

contemporaryworship92

The evidence connecting the pieces you claim to be connected is pretty weak.

Much weaker than the evidence connecting Stairway to Heaven to Taurus by the band Spirit, whose copyright lawsuit didn't work out. (for what it's worth, I do in fact think Led Zepplin took some ideas from Taurus - sound familiar? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd8AVbwB_6E).

Adam Wood

X sounds like Y doesn't mean X copied Y, and that isn't the point.
It means that X is in the same category as Y, and the point is that Y is clearly not appropriate for Z, so neither is X.

matthewj

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contemporaryworship92

The actual similarity between the Schutte Gloria:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-OWTbmuRE8

And the My Little Pony theme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcBNxuKZyN4

Have been greatly overstated. The similar portion lasts for 11 seconds. If we scoured all of popular music for 11 second samples of songs that sound like sacred songs, we would end up shredding the hymnal because "sacred song has 11 seconds of similarity to pop song, therefore they are in the same category, therefore not appropriate."

The difference in genre and intent is pretty clear if you listen to both of these in their entirety.

To anyone still arguing plagiarism - compare to a case where there may have been real plagiarism. It is by no means clear that Stairway to Heaven and Taurus have no relationship to each other if you listen to them in their entirety back to back.

contemporaryworship92

Adam Wood, by that criteria, time to take I Heard the Jesus Say out of the hymnals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEt2XdN_TbQ

M. Jackson Osborn

Methinks that this is all really like comparing bella donna and poison mushrooms.
Unworthy is unworthy, pagiarised or not.
CharlesW is spot on, as is Adam!

chonak

Exactly: the talk about copying is intended as a joke, so if anyone wants to go all Perry Mason and spend their time arguing that there isn't proof beyond a reasonable doubt.... well, let them.

Adam Wood

Adam Wood, by that criteria, time to take I Heard the [Voice of] Jesus Say out of the hymnals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEt2XdN_TbQ

Turning folk songs into hymns is a bit different than writing new music in the style of commercial show music.

Adam Wood

adamwoodwinningmeme.jpg

Adam Wood

The difference in genre and intent is pretty clear if you listen to both of these in their entirety.

Intent? Probably.

Genre? That is precisely the problem. They are of the same genre: Commercial pop ballad show tune.

(I actually think this music is worse than the P&W stuff you promoted in that other thread. That music I merely think is aliturgical. This music is just bad.)

Also, many of us here have a problem with the "technically okay within the rules" interpolation of "peace on earth" into the refrain. Any defense of this ridiculous addition sounds like Eddie Haskell explaining how he doesn't even understand why anyone could possibly see a problem.

KyleM18

So, this discussion has become a Missa MLP discussion now (yes, I mean it as a joke). While I agree that it is not very good, one has to admit that it is catchy with most congregations. Doesn't mean I recommend it, though, since some chant settings can also be catchy (VIII and Orbis Factor, for examples). I personally use it only on request of a bishop.

Some very opinionated points:

-I completely agree that WLP has the best of the New settings, although I give props to Mass IHO St. Ignatius (Weissman) (GIA). I use the revised Proulx settings from GIA as well.
-I personally like some of C. Walker's stuff from OCP, such as Mass of St. Paul the Apostle (on organ with brass), although I mostly use it on occasions with large groups or on request (aka Bishop's request).
-I love the two settings by Daniel Knaggs, but have not had a chance to do them yet.
-I also enjoy several of the settings published on ccwatershed, namely Mass IHO Pope St. John Paul II; Mass IHO Mary, Star of the Sea; and Mass of St. Theodore, as well as the St. Felix Creed.
-The two Masses published by BNSIC are probably the best "congregational" Mass Settings I've seen.

So, who wants to critique other settings of the RM2010?

a_f_hawkins

Examples of how it actually sounds to us PIPs are rarely posted. These days it is easy to record on a mobile phone from the middle of the congregation. I think it would be illuminating, though care is needed to behave with due decorum.
This sort of thing is helpful even though not in the midst of the congregation.
[I posted this in another thread, but it is relevant here]

contemporaryworship92

Great point a_f_hawkins. A friend brought to my attention that there was a problem with posting idealized studio recordings of Mass settings and analyzing their quality outside of the context of parish use. It might be easy to sound good in the studio but when execution isn't perfect in real life that can make a big difference.

contemporaryworship92

Also - the video you linked to was the only result I could find online for Mass of the City. Can you provide a link to a full recording?

a_f_hawkins

Alas no, perhaps we should lobby Ship-of-Fools to add sound clips to their mystery worshipper exercise.

Adam Wood

The problem with that is that nearly everything sounds terrible on cheap recording equipment.

canadash

More mass setting please? I'd love to find another one for the new translation.

irishtenor

If you're looking for something new, you could consider Horst Buchholz's Mass of St. Francis, which I believe is posted here on the forum somewhere, along with permission to use it.

My choir typically chants a Gregorian ordinary, but during Lent, we are going to use the Mass of St. Michael from the 4th Edition of the St. Michael Hymnal, along with the SATB choral parts. It's based on a Ukrainian chant, so it has a mystical, Eastern quality to it.

I would be interested to know if anyone else uses it, and what their parish is like. I operate in a "traddy" Novus Ordo setting, so it's not exactly representative of your typical, suburban, AmChurch parish.

KyleM18

I've used some settings out of the St. Michael's Hymnal, but not the namesake setting. I believe it has the best metrical settings out of all the hymnals for sale.

canadash: Which settings do you normally use? Just so I know what to recommend.

Jes

We have a few in aus that are of note.
Geoffrey Cox's Missa Cantata
and Paul Taylor's Mass of St Francis
I enjoy playing them both for very different reasons.

melofluent

I'm a broken record:
Jernberg's "St. Philip Neri" is a most compelling AND congregationally friendly "trad" setting I've used. I'll have some more, please.
Giffen's "Ascensiones" is also a truly inspired effort.
Mueller's "MR3" (abbr.) is most worthy, not so congregationally accessible, IMHO.
Ditto Ostrowski's "S. Ralph Sherwin."
Nickel's "S Therese Liseaux" very lovely.
Can't remember composer of "Missa Britannica" which quoteth "Thaxted."

Best ensemble antidote to Bolduc "S. Anne" is B. Hurd's "Santa Clara," OCP. No one knows this but me I suppose.

Masses requiring MR3 edition:
Proulx's "Responsorial Mass" (both text and choral/chordal arrangement, as he was in his heavy-on-the-Bartok phase.)
Proulx's "Oecumenica" I might take this one up when retired this summer, as I wrote a Gloria to it already.

advocatus

The Co-Cathedral of the Sacred Heart in Houston produced a nice YouTube video introducing my Mass in Honor of Saint Michael (Liturgical Press)

Kyrie & Gloria https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHsfkEGufME
Sanctus, Mysterium Fidei, Amen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGaTQrkULNQ
Agnus Dei https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG8uupwJMHY

canadash

@Kyle: For the Gloria we use the Missa D'Angelus, the ICEL Mass for America or the ICEL Mass I included above for Canada. The latter is VERY accessible, but I don't think it is boring. I quite enjoy the four part writing and descant within.

As for the rest of the ordinary we use the Kyriale or the simple ICEL chants when we only have cantor/organist.

I've changed up the Alleluia. We use one from the St. Michael Hymnal which is "chant-like" but I can't remember the name of it right now. For more festive days we sing a Ukrainian Alleluia which I heard a our organist's wedding a couple of years ago. And for Lent, our Gospel Acclamation follows the tune for Attende Domine and for Advent, O Come O Come Emmanuel.

Jes

I should add I wrote a new translation mass for SATB accapella which uses a little bit of Latin to avoid some rhythmic awkwardness - e.g. The opening intonation of the Gloria in Latin then the rest in English. Purely to avoid using the words "people of good will" (which in Aus frequently turns into "an on arth pea to peal o goo wii")
If someone wants it I'll try to fish it out from somewhere.

M. Jackson Osborn

"an on arth pea to peal o goo will")

And, up here we have bumper stickers featuring a picture of the whirling earth and the caption, 'envision whirled peas'.
Um, do you have bumper stickers in Aus?
Surely not!!!?

Jes

Yes we do have bumper stickers. We also have bullbar stickers and back window stickers.
The most common sticker you'll find in Aus is that of the southern cross.
As for my pronunciation attempt.
For some reason we sing Latin way better than English so we just sing that first line in Latin for so many mass settings and then the rest in English it's so odd.

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