When you have various knowledge/talent in your choir: WWYD?
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,499
    I have what I think is a good situation. I have quite a few very talented and educated choristers in my volunteer, parish choir. I have at least two solid singers on every part, and in some parts more than that. This is a rather new situation as most of these singers have joined in the last couple of years.

    My problem is that I have a few people who do not know how to read music. Up until the last year or two, learning by route has been a chore, but possible with recordings and homework. Now I have choristers asking me to sing more polyphony and music which will challenge them and make choir more interesting.

    So WWYD in this situation? If I choose music which is more challenging the choristers who have been singing with me for years will be overwhelmed. I fear losing my newbies if I don't do something. I'm hesitant to split up the group, or to create a schola within the choir because I may insult some, but should I be concerned about this at all? Would you approach some key choristers and ask their opinions?
  • Maybe have the different parts come in for different rehearsals so that they can practice their parts just as their part, not as full choir. Or you could group S/A, T/B, which also works.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • I wouldn't split your choir. It seems to me that what is called for is a judicious balance of new and old, by which your veterans, whilst being brought along, are not totally overwhelmed by being taken to high seas without some familiar materials to give them comfort and confidence. Begin to introduce one or two or three not overly difficult polyphonies in your repertory. Having the newer more talented singers in their midst should be encouraging and helpful to them. Your veterans can grow by learning to do things they never thought they could, and your more recent ones will be given the challenges they need. All can grow.

    As for learning by rote. This is sometimes a necessity in volunteer choirs. However, you might take five or so minutes at the beginning of your rehearsal, or at break time, to give a brief tutorial in reading music - covering very basic things like staff reading, note values, time and rhythm, and don't overlook intervals. Keep it short and simple, yet informative and enjoyable. It seems to me that this may open some doors for growth in your choir.

    There are lots of very easy motets by the likes of Tye (such as Laudate nomen Domini) and others which might be just the thing for your singers at this stage.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,499
    Thanks MJO.

    As for learning by rote. This is sometimes a necessity in volunteer choirs. However, you might take five or so minutes at the beginning of your rehearsal, or at break time, to give a brief tutorial in reading music - covering very basic things like staff reading, note values, time and rhythm, and don't overlook intervals. Keep it short and simple, yet informative and enjoyable. It seems to me that this may open some doors for growth in your choir.


    I've tried this in the past, but the older folk (65+) have an entitled: "I've done it this way forever... I don't need to change" kind of attitude about it all. It's frustrating, but when you become a family of sorts, it's hard to be the disciplinarian.

    I've been doing what you suggest and I'll continue until I hear complaining.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,150
    Your older folk need to disentitle themselves of the notion that they've done it that way forever and don't need to change. They do indeed need to change for the good of the choir as a whole. Yes, it will require them to work a bit harder, but choir is not just a big party gig — it's a serious endeavor in the service of the Lord. The elders make take solace in being told that you realize it may take time, but the interior as well as the exterior rewards for each of them will give them far much more than they would have (or lose) if they maintain their "status quo" attitude.

    Oh, I'm 76 going on 77, and I'm not alone being well past 65 in the choirs/choruses in which I sing.
  • jefe
    Posts: 200
    Almost every choir director faces this dilemma. Two things:
    1. have the weakest ones sit and sing next to the strongest readers. Some will rub off.
    2. put together a sight reading session for the summer. I did this last summer and the novice and the know everything got something out of it. I can give you a link to all the music if you want. Here is the outline for that event:
  • Jefe's advice is amongst the wisest.
    Always put weak singers next to strong ones, and if you have enough numbers place them strong-weak,| strong-weak, strong, etc. Also put the stronger section (whether it be women or men) behind the weaker one, the idea being that the weaker one will 'sing out' more (sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't). Also, place voices that blend well with each other next or in close proximity to each other - this will provide a good basic colour that the others can, hopefully, match. (These advices are, of course, for the average volunteer choir. Different criteria come into play with more advanced choirs.)

    And, furthermore about the above - as Charles said about those who feel 'entitled' to their ways: they need, as firmly and diplomatically as possible to be stripped of their 'titles', whatever they are. Sometimes these entitlements mean sitting next to someone I like to sit next to, my daughter, my son, my grandmother, my special friend, whatever. People in a choir sit where they are asked by the choirmaster to sit - if they wish to sing in his or her choir.

    As for other various talents, well, one of the women in St Basil's Schola Cantorum is an absolutely five-star baker and cook. Me, I make an excellent crème Bavarois.
    Thanked by 2canadash CHGiffen
  • I instinctively dislike situations which discourage those who can give more from giving more. As I work with children, it is always the case that there are some who are more capable than others.
    I would suggest:
    Make the ability to read music a norm for the choir. Offer training at every rehearsal. No compulsion for this - just some quick short lessons for a variety of levels, from total beginners to those who can competently sight sing but all need to practice this skill. Let the ones who are resistant see what can be achieved when you can sight sing.
    Have you a place for 'special 'pieces? This could be at a particular point i.e. offertory or for a particular feast ie Christ the king, Christmas etc.
    Subdivide the choir into groups who can each have a special piece to learn - from a simple piece for the less competent, to a complex piece for the more able. Your able singers should be able to quickly learn and come alongside for the simpler pieces, as well as having their own more complex pieces to rehearse. That way you can get the more able to do more satisfying and challenging pieces without leaving anyone else out in the cold. As people improve in their singing, they can be given pieces that challenge them more.
    you might for example present four or five pieces to the choir at the beginning of the season - specifying the level of competence needed for each piece, ie This is a piece for non readers, it is available to listen to , so you can learn it at home by rote, here is a piece by Palestrina, you can listen to the audio, but you will need to be able to follow the music to know how your voice fits in, etc.
    Let people choose for themselves - but be clear about the standard for each piece and don't relax it just because someone likes the piece and feels they could do it.
    Give choir members the ability to move on towards more complex pieces as their sight singing improves over time.
  • We have one large choir with two sub-choirs. The large choir (incorporating all adult singers) sings at Mass once a month; this accommodates for all skill levels giving them the opportunity to have plenty of time to prepare choral music. The two sub-choirs sing (at different Masses) more often (not quite every week), and these are the more skilled members. Very soon (next year or the year after), the large choir will be at a skill level where they can sing more often, and then one of the sub-choirs will just go away. The large choir is picking up choral music more and more quickly and assimilating new members more easily. This is pretty much exactly what I was hoping for.

    Once of the sub-choirs is a chant schola which will remain regardless.

    We don't have any really obstinate singers who just won't go along. I don't quite know why.

    Keep in mind I had complete freedom to create a music program from scratch because, when I was hired, almost everyone quit. So I am largely ignorant (experientially) of the issues others encounter when plopped in front of a choir of "veterans." Almost all of my singers are really "my" singers. So my solution is one solution, but maybe not the best for many others.