Help finding/correcting text, please
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Does anyone know this text, so as to proof-read it. I think there are several places where it is erroneous, but I'm not sure.

    Salve virgo virginum
    parens genitoris
    salve lumen luminum,
    radius splendoris.
    Salve flos convallium
    stilla very roris;
    nostra spes in te.

    Salve virgo regia [should that be regina?]
    porta salutaris,
    very viri nescia, quia deum paris.
    Ave quia deica [don't know the word?]
    prole fecundaris;
    nostra spes in te.

    Ave nostre spei
    finis et saluris [yes, it appears to be saluris, not salutis]
    Ave per quam rei
    letantur cum turis. [usually? laetantur]
    Ave speciei
    decus et salutis;
    nostra spes in te.
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    Chris, "regius" is a regular adjective meaning "royal", and "deicus" is also an adjective meaning "divine". I would guess this is a later text from the spelling of "ae" as "e" in "nostre" and "letantur". I can't find any examples of "saluris", so you would think that it must be "salutis". Could it work as "the end (goal) of our hope and of (our) salvation"? That would be a parallel construction to "speciei decus et salutis", if rather repetitive.
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    Also not sure if the two instances of "very" were in the original or autocorrect ;-)
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    A paper available on the net about the Arundel MS 248, folio 155, gives the first and third stanzas as follows:



    Salve virgo virginum,
    parens genitoris,
    Salve lumen luminum,
    radius splendoris,
    Salve flos convallium,
    stilla veri roris,
    Nostra spes in te.

    Ave nostre spei
    finis et salutis,
    Ave, per quam rei
    letantur cum tutis,
    Ave, speciei
    decus et salutis,
    Nostra spes in te.
    Thanked by 2gregp CHGiffen
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    Have you checked the Analecta Hymnica ?
    I have had a quick look but google did not seem to find it, I have not tried the OCR misspellings!

    Anyway here are my comments on the text in bold.

    Salve virgo virginum
    parens genitoris
    salve lumen luminum,
    radius splendoris.
    Salve flos convallium
    stilla very roris; (should be veri)
    nostra spes in te.

    Salve virgo regia [should that be regina?] (note that this text is rhymed so regia / nescia / deica)
    porta salutaris,
    very viri nescia, (should be veri)
    quia deum paris.
    Ave quia deica [don't know the word?] (made up to fit the rhyme)
    prole fecundaris;
    nostra spes in te.

    Ave nostre spei
    finis et saluris [yes, it appears to be saluris, not salutis] (Rhyming, saluris / turis / saluris?)
    Ave per quam rei
    letantur cum turis. [usually? laetantur] (in old manuscripts 'e' is used for 'ae')
    Ave speciei
    decus et salutis; (I suspect that this may be salutis, as above or as Chonk's verse with salutis / tutis / salutis)
    nostra spes in te.
  • Ioannes Andreades
    Posts: 310
    Is Mary really the parens genitoris? Isn't the Father without principle?

    Why isn't radius in the vocative? The nominative used for vocative is typical only in addressing a deity.

    Couldn't find deicus in Lewis and Short or Dictionary of Ecclesiastical Latin. Don't have a Lexicon Latinitatis Medii Aevi. Divina would have provided the correct number or syllables, and I don't think that deica rhymes happily with regia or nescia anyway. The whole line is weird. It's normal to use a relative clause as a vocative (since they are nothing but big old substantive adjectives), but adverbial clauses (such as those starting with quia) shouldn't be used and quae won't fit the meter.

    Why do the first, third, and fifth lines of the last stanza have only 6 syllables?

    Cum turis must be cum tutis.
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    Why isn't radius in the vocative? The nominative used for vocative is typical only in addressing a deity.


    Actually, it's typical with words that are never found classically in the vocative; it's just that the two best-known cases are deus and agnus. It may also have been considered awkward to use a masculine vocative for a woman.
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