Selling Compositions
  • I am certain that this has been discussed before, but a search of the forum brought up nothing.

    As composers, especially who promote the concept of creative commons, how does one make money with their music? Does it involve composing concert works to supplement their sacred work? Would it be better to self-publish or seek to sell through known channels? What if someone like us sold through one of the big three Catholic publishers? *gasp* I know some of us already do, so that is perhaps hyperbolic.

    Anyways, have we had a discussion of making money as a composer here before, or can we start one if not?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Some of us do not support Creative Commons. Some of us support it only pragmatically. Some of us support it to the point that we are more or less unwilling to use copyright as a way to protect the work.

    (That last one is me, but there is a lot of the other two.)

    There are a lot of ways to make money as a composer, and I can think of only one that is hindered by Creative Commons: getting picked up by one of the major publishers.

    Any other business model (and there are many) is going to be little-affected by your licensing scheme, other than that you may find that freely shareable content become free advertising.

    The way I would structure a Creative Commons music sales business is:

    - FREE sourcecode (lilypond, Latex, gregorio)
    - CHEAP PDF downloads ($0.99)
    - REASONABLY PRICED (or pay what you can) print-on-demand books.

    re: pay-what-you can, cf. LeanPub's pricing model. (link is to some random book - look at the price sliders)

  • Not all music has the right appeal or market for a big publisher to take it on. For me, I'm not a big fan of monetizing my works that aren't published. If someone asks, I give it away with my thanks for using it. 99% of what I write is practical music that was written to address a specific need that isn't already filled, or that isn't well filled. As lovely as it is to be published, it's not a way to earn a living (with few exceptions), and I'm just happy to know others are making use of what I've written.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Hear, hear to Cerisier.
    If one's had the providence to be compensated for exercising one's talents in service to the Faithful, the Church and God, remuneration for works composed in that service seem superfluous. The efforts of CMAA'ers Allen, Rice, Jones, Oost-Zinner, Pluth, Kwasniewski, Bartlett, Wood, Giffen, Koerber, Morber and others are admirable for supplying to a need (choral copies.) For the most part I'd rather gift the Church with worthy works that might unveil a legacy, or not, than to ask for a pound now and recognition therein.
    I'm talking this way 'cause it's Ian William's birthday.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    The efforts of CMAA'ers Allen, Rice, Jones, Oost-Zinner, Pluth, Kwasniewski, Bartlett, Wood, Giffen, Koerber, Morber and others are admirable for supplying to a need (choral copies.)

    Some of those people have GOT PAID, using a handful of business models.
  • PaxMelodious
    Posts: 425
    In most musical genres, now, no one makes a living from sales. The main money is from live performance. I don't see church music as different in this regard.
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood francis
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    no one makes a living from sales


    That's not exactly accurate. Publishers make lots of money from sales. And I'm willing to bet that I could live comfortably on the royalty checks being sent to any one of several very popular song writers featured in most contemporary hymnals.

    The real question isn't what is possible, but what is likely. Also, what is important to you personally.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    My sense is a lot of this has to do with luck, and uniqueness, and connections.

    The uniquer the better. (Adam).
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Adam, you clearly misunderstood me. All of those chose to self-market for the specific need of choral copies that are, if nothing else, very convenient for people like me. Why would I need to Xerox on Sundays or any day if I have their ubiquitous works stored for regular usage? And, for the record, I (not my parish), paid for those volumes in sets. That philosophy goes back to my first colloquium, where I negotiated with Arlene to purchase a quantity of that summer's book (surplus from event) for my schola.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    My sense is a lot of this has to do with luck, and uniqueness, and connections.

    Absolutely spot on.
    If it wasn't for Heath's Maundy Thursday anthem, I most likely wouldn't have availed of his two volumes (Eucharistic and for the Year latest issue.) Noel's compendium was splendidly populated. Kevin's is revisioned polyphony. Kwasniewski's idiomatic. Rice (both Simple and Communio) is supremely geared for utilization, etc.
    And as per usual, it is reasonable to assume great impetus came from practical need, and I greatly respect that.
    Hope that clears it up for all.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    there is no money in excellent music publishing because very few can perform it and few are interested to hear it. it is why Beethoven, Mozart and Wagner fill the concert halls... they appeal to the masses... Bach is better than them all ten times over, yet the proportion of performances of JSB works is smaller by far. Mediocrity will always draw a crowd. A crowd is where money is made and that is the dilemma of being a composer who hopes to create fine art. You can never be in it for money or making a living. Performance is the way to make a living. Composing is simply a labor of love.

    I went to the concert hall a few nights ago to hear an excellent choir from Scotland. On the program was Ludwigs 9th (yawn!) the choir did a concert the night before of music most of us never heard before. we were all stunned and electrified. I wish there was a lot more of that in the concert hall. it was only half full that night and the 9th was sold out. I was bored to tears hearing Beethoven and those screaming Divas.

    So goes the status quo.

    BTW... for example, look up my Choral Managerie link which is a few posts down. There are only a handful of choirs in the world that will even attempt it. It's not for sale (at the moment)... I composed it as a gift for the choir I heard the night before I wrote it. Inspiration, fascination with beautiful harmonies and the drive to share it with others was my only motivation.
    Thanked by 1kenstb
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,464
    I would highly recommend publishing through Sheet Music Plus. Their site has an active and established site to set up your own self publishing site.
    I have sales every month there.
    If you are a new composer, it will take a long time to accepted by any of the major publishers. It doesent have anything to do with quality, it's just that what you are offering may not fit their needs.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    I should have told you about my model of self publishing. It works quite well and choirs have purchased my scores around the globe from this one website. The home page explains my sales philosophy. Hope this helps.

    http://www.MyOpus.com
    Thanked by 1davidpables
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    One of the interesting things about standard music publishing contracts, at least in the Church model, is that the author is reimbursed on a ten percent scale for publication, but 50 for reprints, when the composition is lent out to others.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    Kathy, what you wrote makes it sound like it's 5 times more for reprints when in actuality it's 50% less.

    If a hymn text you've written and assigned copyright to WLP appears in one of its hymnals, then you receive a pro rata share of the aggregate 10 percent royalty paid by the publisher to composers and text writers. If that text later appears in a hymnal published by Hope Publishing Company, WLP will receive the pro rata share of the 10 percent royalty and you will receive half of that royalty (50 percent).
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    Fr. Krisman,

    That's not the only way reprints are done.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    That's not the only way reprints are done.

    True, but in every case I think the result is the same.

    Let's take the case of one of your texts, now copyrighted by WLP, which is included in an octavo with original music by a composer other than yourself. If that octavo is published by WLP, you will receive a 5 percent royalty on sales and the composer the other 5 percent (10 percent total royalty on sales). If that octavo is published by a publisher other than WLP, the composer will receive a 5 percent royalty for the music from whatever publisher it is, and WLP a 5 percent royalty for the text (and you will receive 50 percent of that royalty from WLP).

    The same goes for royalties from licensing agreements. If a tune of mine with copyright held by GIA appears in a GIA hymnal, I will receive a pro rata share of the aggregate 10 percent royalty paid by GIA to composers and text writers. If that same tune generates royalties through OneLicense reprints, I will receive 50 percent of those royalties and GIA the other 50 percent.

    Do you know of another reprint scenario that has a different result?
    Thanked by 1MarkThompson
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,499
    Yes.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,046
    Mechanical royalties are chump change. 10% of "what the market will bear" isn't much. The problem with sacred music is that, unless it gets done outside the liturgy, you don't get paid for performances (I'm cool with that, actually). My BMI checks have run between $200-$1400 a year (Mostly closer to the lower figure). The main advantage of mainstream publishing is the curatorial and publicity advantage.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Since liturgical performance is free anyway, and most of what I've written are liturgical, I don't care if I get payed or not - though I consider my church compositions to be "ministry" anyway, which is where I think CPDL is definitely the way to go. If I ever write any concert music that I want to get out, that is where 'traditional' publishing would come in.

    And if on the infinitesimally small chance that one of my church works becomes popular and OUP wants to republish it in a collection of anthems, I might consider asking for royalties, but (of course) on the condition that the free version remain "at large". But, needless to say, the likelihood of that scenario is so remote as to be nonexistent! (Like aliens.)
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Richard R.
    Posts: 774
    ...
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    oh.... I forgot to elucidate... compose EVERYTHING in Latin... never in the vernacular. BAHAHAHAHAHAHa!
  • Publish something that you really believe in and feel that there is a market for it. Stick with it for the long run and know that it may never do much more than maybe pay the monthly utilities. And when it does...and it can, be thankful.
  • Distributing your works at an event such as NPM as we have talked about in the past can have great benefit. Putting music that is not expected has more impact than showing it along with a lot of similar works.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,046
    Francis, there's not a lot of future in temporary local Uses. Definitely Latin. You'll be remembered after you're dead. Which will probably happen sooner than if you'd written in the vernacular
    .
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Jeffrey... lol

    Well, when we get to heaven, all the liturgies will be in Latin... I am writing for those since I don't get to use any of my comps down here since Latin is so unpopular.
    Thanked by 1eft94530