Accompanied v unaccompanied chant in OF Masses
  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 393
    What are people's views on this, please?
    In my place of work there is a heavy emphasis on encouraging the congregation to join in the Mass music, so when we have a chant Mass (usually de Angelis) it always has loud organ accompaniment. The organist also plays for the Marian antiphons sung at the end of Mass.
    Personally I'm not all that keen. I've introduced Mass XVII for Advent and Lent, and persuaded the authorities to allow us (because of the season) to do it unaccompanied. The choir liked it, and the congregation did join in. We also do the introit and communion antiphons unaccompanied. Maybe I should be happy with that and not risk upsetting the organist, or anyone else for that matter.
    If you do prefer organ accompaniment, are there any favoured versions? I feel the ones used here are a bit heavy, though, having said that, this is a very large old building.

    Thanks!
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Honestly, I think it's important that both be possible, in an ideal situation. If you always sing with organ, you should probably try occasionally singing without. And if it's never used, try it occasionally.
    Thanked by 1SarahJ
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Never use the organ for the propers or any other plainchant that is sung by the schola, choir, or cantor only.

    As for the congregation? Some congregations can do this. Some can learn to do it. In these cases, if the chant sounds good, don't accompany it.

    If it isn't feasible in your congregational situation, then accompany the chant on an 8' principal, with very sparse textures (no more than two or three 'voices'), and no pedal.

    When we do all chant masses at St Basil's, UST, I never use the organ for schola or congregational chants. The people follow the schola and sing just fine. Of course being Houston's single finest sacred acoustical place helps! At these masses the organ is used only for the opening and closing voluntaries. It is not used otherwise for so much as giving a pitch. We get our pitches from the tonal ad libitum of the cantor, who is me or someone I delegate.
    Thanked by 1Viola
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Ideally, chant is unaccompanied. However, accompaniment can be used for pitch support if you feel it's necessary. Nothing wrong with either one. It's more important that the chant is sung than whether it is accompanied or not.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    How many times have we had this battle discussion? A time, and times, and half a time?
    Thanked by 3Ben Steve Collins Casavant Organist
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,021
    We'll probably continue to have the discussion.

    If the point is to get people to sing more, then their singing must be supported, and in a manner which they understand - the organ.

    As I usually state in these discussions, the "Nova Organi Harmonia" is just about the best chant accompaniment available. There are a few others that I use, including Rev. Carlo Rossini's.

    I usually stay away from the Principal stops - 8' Flutes with maybe 8' Strings, and the 4' flute especially for when the congregation joins with the cantor/choir. Less is more. And I never use the pedals on chant accompaniment.

    Actually, that last word in the key - accompaniment. You're not leading them in the same way as playing a hymn.

  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I second the NOH.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    We accompany congregational (Latin) ordinaries here, although I try to keep the blazing reeds at bay.

    I contend that NOH is an excellent resource from schola-only chant, and a very poor one for congregational chant. For "congregational chant", you need a more rhythmically encouraging harmonization, in my opinion. In other words, NOH's strength for schola accompaniment is its weakness for congregational.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    The NOH was written for the EF, so the idea that the congregation would be taking part in the proper chants of the Mass was not considered to be a possibility. In reality, though, the congregation was never expected to sing the proper chants anyway, and still aren't.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    I second the NOH.

    I second the "No."

    image

    Thanked by 2ClergetKubisz M. Jackson Osborn
  • Steve CollinsSteve Collins
    Posts: 1,021
    BruceL, I disagree. First, we don't have the congregation singing Propers, so that's half of the NOH to begin with. Second, most other accompaniments have "Glory and Praise" style block chords underneath multiple neumes - no rhythmic help whatsoever. The beauty of the NOH is that virtually each neume has some sort of harmonic change under it. The movement from dissonance to consonance the melody proceeds from arsis to thesis and back, etc. This rhythm also points to the duple and triple sets of notes, thereby both keeping everything moving and guiding through the triples and duples.

    When playing for the congregational singing I use a bit more marcatto style with a 4' stop added to whatever 8' stops I would be using with just the schola.
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    I usually use the Bragers or Rossini accompaniments with the following registrations:
    Men's voices - unaccompanied
    Treble voices - 8' flute only
    Congregation - 8' & 4' diapasons with 16' pedal

    Other than congregational singing or the amen after a hymn sung in alternation, I never have men and women or children singing chant together. My main struggle at present is that some of the women in my choir seem to think they have to compete with the organ when I'm accompanying the congregation. A separate director or organist could help, I think, but alas, we don't have that luxury.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 393
    Thank you so much for the very useful comments, and I apologise for resurrecting what appears to be an ancient discussion.
    Plenty for me to talk about with our organist. (Actually, I'd love to revive the old French tradition of using a serpent; maybe there has been a discussion about that somewhere....)
    Thanked by 2M. Jackson Osborn CharlesW
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Actually, I'm a great fan of NOH. My first encounter with it was quite some years ago when a Japanese troupe came to Houston and performed it at UST. I was fascinated by it, and commend it to all.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    (Actually, I'd love to revive the old French tradition of using a serpent; maybe there has been a discussion about that somewhere....)


    So would I, but serpent players are quite rare these days.
  • ViolaViola
    Posts: 393
    One of our basses plays the trumpet, and a serpent has a brass type mouthpiece, does it not? Actually, finding a serpent might be more difficult than finding someone to play it.
    Interesting clip here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWez9hhitXQ
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
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