Chartres Pilgrimage Final Mass...Musical Choices?
  • Hugh
    Posts: 198
    I love the Chartres Pilgrimage. I've been immensely privileged to have been on it 3 times. I would dearly love to do it again before I die. Fortunately it is now streamed, so I can watch it from Melbourne Australia at my computer desk (from which I hope to ascend to heaven when the time comes).

    But what's with the musical choices these days?

    During the long entrance of the clergy (great!), they sang "Come Down O Love Divine". In English. So the vast bulk of the French congregation couldn't join in - and manifestly didn't. It's a fine hymn - Vaughan Williams. But what gives?

    Infinitely worse still, two of the verses were given over to a soprano, not quite in control of her vibrato, singing a descant solo!! I've never heard of such a thing, and hopefully never will again.

    Then at offertory, there was a rather obscure motet - overly complex. Again, with warbly sopranos dominating. And the text? OK: it was a "Sub Tuum", and this is Notre Dame de Chartres. But really, on the Monday after Pentecost, isn't there something in the repertoire dedicated to the Holy Spirit that could be sung at Offertory (as in the years I was there)?

    The Communio chant was sung after most people had communicated. OK, this is a bit picky. But in my book, the Communio should be sung FIRST, while people are actually communicating. Not as some afterthought.

    Now, to their credit, they added a psalm to the Communio, to draw it out a bit.

    But...the psalm was the "Miserere"!!! In the Octave of Pentecost, the go-to communion psalm is the Miserere?

    Don't get me wrong ... as a whole the musical choices were several universes above what would be chosen in just about every NO parish these days. But I just wonder at the rationale.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    "During the long entrance of the clergy (great!), they sang "Come Down O Love Divine". In English. So the vast bulk of the French congregation couldn't join in - and manifestly didn't. It's a fine hymn - Vaughan Williams. But what gives?"

    I imagine the French pilgrims were enchanted by English as the new Latin.....

    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Did they sing the great "Chez Nous" as the recessional? I've heard recordings in past years, although, come to think of it, I think they had those warbly sopranos on the verses.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    The descants used for "Come down, O Love divine" are, in fact, my own descants. You can hear flutes playing them in the choral verses, and apparently a soprano soloist was used to sing them in single verses ... she sings descant 1 first then descant 2 later, both as solos ... later she sings descant 1 on the final choral stanza.

    It all begins at about the 31:30 mark on the youtube recording here.
    Thanked by 3Ben JulieColl Adam Wood
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,962
    It’s a nice bone to the increasing number of Anglophone pilgrims.

    Also, the older practice was to sing the chant after Communion.

    This year they opened with a Sung Mass. A step backwards if you ask me.

    Last year they did Mass IX instead of II or III for the Vigil. That was weird. But, I was in the front row at Notre Dame de Paris with the English and Welsh. I wasn’t complaining. Next time, I’ll stick through the whole way with the group for Mass in the crypt.

    What I really want are the chords used for the guitar in the recording (https://youtu.be/o5GuDRTxem8) and for a full recording too.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    Direct link to the live stream video.
    Thanked by 1Hugh
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Singing the communion antiphon at the end of communions would be consistent with an Anglophone bias in the hymnody. This antiphon was sung at the end of communions in the Sarum Use - during the ablutions. I'm sure that all the Anglophones present would have noticed this.
  • Hugh
    Posts: 198
    Charles - just to clarify: actually I liked the descant tune as such, and enjoyed the flute over the singing. But I don't reckon a descant solo fits with this movement to the altar. Let alone two verses, of a (fine) English hymn in a mostly French context, so that most people in the cathedral probably weren't singing by default even on the verses they were permitted to sing. Destroys the forward momentum, and all too reminiscent of papal tour masses I've glimpsed over recent years that favour sop solos warbling into a mike. And I don't think the singer delivered it well. (Please don't tell me she's your wife !!).

    FWIW: My choice in this context would have been to have a majestic processional piece from the Chartres great organ until the Bishops were halfway down the nave, then to begin the introit chant from there, and have it sung with several verses, covering all the action of the opening prayers. And with the chant overall I would have had many more singers, if available. The choir was miked - as it had to be - but if it's placed too close, it means with only few voices you can hear the individual singers (both when the men and the women sang), rather than a blend, which I think is v. important in chant.

    Or, instead of an organ piece, one of those hymns that all in the congregation could join in (eg Lauda Jerusalem) and then, again, the Introit, with verses, when the celebrants are, say, halfway down the nave.

    P.S. What's wrong with the French these days? Why are they kowtowing to us English speakers, against their fine ancient visceral instincts? Is it a desperate move to halt Brexit !?!

    Cheers, and thanks for posting link.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw CHGiffen
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Also, that director on the gospel side sure is something...

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  • Hugh
    Posts: 198
    Re. when the Communio should be sung: in "Rubrics for the Chant of the Mass" the Liber Usualis says this

    "After the Communion, the full choir sings the Antiphon which is thus named, ... The Communion Antiphon is sung while the priest is consuming the Blessed Sacrament. When there are other communicants, the Antiphon is begun when the priest distributes Communion. If the Antiphon is taken from a Psalm, other Verses of the same Psalm may be sung. ... If the Antiphon is not taken from a Psalm, some Psalm suitable to the feast and to this part of the Mass may be chosen."

    Bit ambiguous, the first two sentences, but I think the sense is that overall the Antiphon should accompany the reception of Communion so that the people/priest are meditating on the thoughts of the chant text as they communicate. That said, practical issues may override. In fact at our Mass, the choir goes up to receive Communion first, then comes back to sing the Antiphon while the rest of the distribution is going on, just so we're not caught at the end of a long line and miss out on getting our communion motet in. But I do like the principle.
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    "Rubrics for the Chant of the Mass" the Liber Usualis says this


    @Hugh It may say that in the 1962 Liber, but have a look in the c. 1950 ed. it says something different!
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,962
    What tomjaw said.

    Ben, that’s something you quickly learn to love on Chartres, lest you go crazy.

    I agree that they need more singers.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Ben, that’s something you quickly learn to love on Chartres, lest you go crazy.


    I'm going to have to try it in the loft sometimes.
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