Ave Verum : English set to GC : HELP!
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    I am trying to set the Ave Verum in English to the GC, and am looking for help. Suggestions, please?!
    aveVerumEnglish.pdf
    128K
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,296
    I've used Adam Wood's "Hail, True Body" for SAB choir with pretty good success. You could just use his soprano line.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    http://forum.musicasacra.com/forum/uploads/FileUpload/2d/b62794c4f8f88e76ae858e71897520.pdf
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    These ventures almost always end with poor results. Try writing a new mode VI melody for the text and take some inspiration from the Gregorian Ave Verum... But don't directly quote it.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    My own, somewhat inept, translation is below. There being some true Latin scholars on our forum, I'm a little embarrassed even to put it forth here. It does, though, illustrate one quality that is lacking in many translations, a quality that is, to me, of equal importance to capturing the meaning of the original tongue, namely, that there is for every note in the original chant one matching syllable in the translated text, or, in the case of compound neumes, there is a single syllable to be sungen on them/it, as in the original version. So, I put this forth as some small effort to fulfill those necessities of text-chant adaptation. And, I hope that someone like Kathy will offer something impeccable in its place. It will be noticed that I made no attempt to match the rhyme scheme of the Latin, which is a serious short-coming.

    So, here it is, matching the chant as you have it above -
    Underlined syllables get the compound neumes, all the other syllables get their single neumes.

    1. Hail, true bo-dy, born of Ma-ry | e-ver-vir-gin mo-ther mild:
    2. True thy pas-sion, thy ob-la-tion | on the cross for hu-man-kind.
    3. From thy wound-ed side, which, pierced through, | there flowed wa-ter, blood, in love.
    4. Be thou, victor, our great fore-taste | when we face the trials of death.
    5. O Jesu, sweet-ness!
    6. O Je-su, ho-ly!
    7. O Je-su, thou son of Ma-ry!

    Thanked by 2CHGiffen bonniebede
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    These ventures almost always end with poor results.

    (Depending on who are the adventurers!)
    Anglicans are more than generally better (and more caring) (and less inept) about these ventures. I hesitate to say it because I'm sure that some get tired of hearing it - but it's true.

    A case in point is Adoro te devote as it appears in The 1940 contrasted to how it appears in most Catholic hymnals (the G.M. Hopkins translation excepted - whenever it appears). In fact, the variety of incredibly poor text-tune pairings involving the tune of Adoro te in Catholic hymnbooks would be an excercise in hilarity were they not seriously intended to be sung at liturgy.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    ...and I KNEW before I even posted this here that I was exposing myself to unfavorable comments because this is truly a very very difficult challenge for even the best linguists, poets and writers of which I am the greatest of amateurs. (This is the primary reason I put HELP in all caps in the title of this thread)

    Yet, the demand for this type of thing is so needed that if it had been fulfilled 50 years ago, we would not be singing the rediculous ditties that we find destroying our liturgy today.

    So, if one is not even to try nor look to garner support to make some worthy attempt, then I think it best for the nay sayers to go and pray a prayer for those that will take the risk.

    Success is only found in those who are willing to risk failure over and over.

    Thank you MJO for your participation in the effort.
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen M. Jackson Osborn irishtenor
  • bonniebede
    Posts: 756
    This is great, one of the things I am trying to do with the kids is teach them chants or hymns in both Latin and English, so that no one can say they don't understand what they are singing. So even if the English rendering is less aesthetically pleasing than the Latin, it still has a useful purpose, thanks.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    If they were both in the same mode, but one melody written for the Latin and one for the English, you could do them together but have much better results.
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