I would appreciate it if anyone was interested in analyzing the following hymn...
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,499
    After the revelation that the Blessed Sacrament is not in the "bread and wine" but the bread and wine are the Blessed Sacrament (not that I didn't know this, I just didn't pay close attention to the nuances of the text) I would appreciate any thoughts on following hymn with regard to church teaching.

    There’s a wideness in God’s mercy
    Like the wideness of the sea;
    There’s a kindness in his justice
    Which is more than liberty.

    There is no place where earth’s sorrows
    Are more felt than up in heaven;
    There is no place where earth’s failings
    Have such kindly judgement given.

    For the love of God is broader
    Than the measure of man’s mind;
    And the heart of the Eternal
    Is most wonderfully kind.

    But we make his love too narrow
    By false limits of our own;
    And we magnify his strictness
    With a zeal he will not own.

    There is plentiful redemption
    In the blood that has been shed;
    There is joy for all the members
    In the sorrows of the Head.

    There is grace enough for thousands
    Of new worlds as great as this;
    There is room for fresh creations
    In that upper home of bliss.

    If our love were but more simple
    We should take him at his word;
    And our lives would be all gladness
    In the joy of Christ the Lord.
  • SeasonPsaltSeasonPsalt
    Posts: 78
    But we make His love too narrow
    By false limits of our own;
    And we magnify his strictness
    With a zeal he will not own.


    I love this verse. I am not qualified to "analyze" in the way you are asking but this is a great verse. The only analysis I can make is this is verse 4 and it may be "cut off" if the procession gets where it's going too quickly while the parishioners are singing.

    The bread and wine is Christ. Crucified. That much I can analyze.

    For the last verse, I'll let Christ speak: "Amen, I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child* will not enter it." Mark 10:15

    I think the first verses are covered in the Psalms, but that's a big book and I'm ready to head toward bed. So my wife insists. "Are you doing work stuff, or are goofing around on the Internet?" Don't get the wrong impression, she's AWESOME (28 years married), and no, I'm not whipped.

    Thanked by 2canadash Gavin
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    I'll not say much right now.
    It does seem to me at the moment that it resonates quite nicely with what Holy Father Francis has been trying to get across to some rather unwelcoming ears. On the other hand, it could be seen as excusing that which does not resonate with revealed truth. I think there is respectable room for some 'wideness' in interpreting this song. It certainly does convey God's unconditional love, which is just that. I'll be interested to see what others have to say.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    I don't think the hymntext Canadash's quoted is the commonly sung text.

    Vs1, 3rd/4th original stroph should read:
    "There is plentiful redemption in the blood that has been shed
    There is joy for all the members in the sorrows of the head."

    Comparing this with the revised text reveals (to me) the great difference between dogmatic theology extracted from the original text and the sermonizing in the revision and subsequent stanzas. I'll stay with column A, thanks.
    Thanked by 3canadash Adam Wood Jani
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,499
    Melo is right. I've misquoted. I've taken this from the Oxford Easy Anthem Book and I don't have it right here. I went on line to look, but there are all sorts of adaptations. The part of the verse Melo quoted is added to the hymn we sing though, it does not replace the two lines mentioned.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,371
    It seems here that Fr Faber over the years wrote 13 stanzas for this hymn but that only a selection appears in current protestant hymnals, where it is quite popular.
    Thanked by 2canadash CharlesW
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Melo is right.

    Don't flatter me, Cdash, even a busted clock......
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Don't flatter me, Cdash, even a busted clock......


    So is that busted clock now a wet clock? LOL. I heard rain was finally coming to your area.

    ...for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. Matthew 5:45
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,499
    I edited the incorrect version I first posted. I hope this doesn't cause more confusion.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    Twelve of Fr. Faber's thirteen (8787) stanzas are found here:

    http://cyberhymnal.org/htm/t/h/e/therwide.htm

    No hymnal today contains all 12 (or 13) stanzas, and I doubt that it is for doctrinal reasons that certain stanzas have been omitted. (But one would have to ask the editors of non-Catholic hymnals about that.) A careful study of the 12 stanzas reveals that some of them are quite sentimental and others are more "preachy" than doxological.

    In hymnody, more is not always better.

    I take exception to the OP's opening words:
    After the revelation that the Blessed Sacrament is not in the "bread and wine" but the bread and wine are the Blessed Sacrament...

    No, the Blessed Sacrament is the Body and Blood of Christ; it is not "bread and wine." I never assume that a Catholic (hymn writer or not) intends heresy when he or she makes such an infelicitous statement. I only point it out because it is easy for any of us to misspeak about so great a mystery.
    Thanked by 3Gavin CharlesW melofluent
  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 331
    It seems to me that many modern hymnals omit the more sentimental verses, which is to the good. They also tend to change "And our lives would be all sunshine/In the sweetness of our Lord" to "And our lives would be all gladness/In the joy of Christ the Lord"--another extremely happy revision.

    But suitably cut down and altered it is in my opinion a fine hymn, theologically speaking. Was there a specific concern about it?
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,499
    But we make his love too narrow
    By false limits of our own;
    And we magnify his strictness
    With a zeal he will not own.

    I'm questioning myself here. Do I make the Lord's love narrow? Do I magnify his strictness? How? Am I zealous about pointing out the faults of others? Is this something God wants me to do? Or do I just go about my life and not worry about everything going on around me.... abortion, euthanasia, marriage outside the church, IVF... etc. etc....
  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 331
    These all sound like good questions to ask oneself, so in that sense the text seems effective.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    Frederick W. Faber had been an Anglican priest but became a follower of John Henry Newman, and when Newman converted to Catholicism in 1845, Faber followed him across the Tiber. Moreover, Faber, well aware of Anglican and other Protestant hymnody (such as that of Wesley), took up hymn writing after his conversion and wrote some 150 hymns, with the apparent disposition that Catholics should have English hymns of their own in the tradition of Anglican hymns. He is best know, perhaps, for "Faith of our Fathers," but "There's a wideness in God's mercy" is another solid hymn of his. Oddly, or perhaps fortuitously enough, Faber's hymns have more than just a Catholic appeal and several are much cherished among Protestants.
    Thanked by 3M. Jackson Osborn mattebery eft94530
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