Different chant settings of the Mystery of Faith
  • NatePultorak
    Posts: 8
    I have searched for these and have been unsuccessful in finding anything. Has anybody written melodies for the mystery of faith that correspond stylistically to the Gregorian settings found in the Kyriale? I am relatively new to sacred music (just got introduced to it a year and a half ago), and would like to use the different Gregorian mass settings without having to repeat the same Mortem Tuam for every setting. Thanks for your input!
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    NatePultorak,

    Since you're new, I'll assume that my post will be new information to you.

    In the older form of the Mass, there is no Memorial Acclamation, and so when the Mortem Tuam was spliced into the Ordo of Pope Paul VI, a melody was borrowed from the liturgy for Good Friday. This melody is sung to the words Crucem Tuam Adoramus, Domine. There were multiple options for the acclamation, but only one melody provided, to the best of my knowledge. Vernacular composers set themselves to the task of writing music for the 4 (actually not, but let that pass) possible texts for the Acclamation. The most commonly used text in allegedly conservative parishes is the one which wasn't in the Latin text of the Missal of Paul VI. Most of the musical settings for the other acclamations is boorish, in part because the translation of the texts left so much to be desired. The rule for most of the last 50 years has been "New music good; old music bad". (Yes, that's supposed to sound like Orwell's sheep.) If there are settings available, they're a well-kept secret.

    All that said, around here people recommend the work of Fr. Samuel Weber, OSB, or an outfit called Corpus Christi Watershed. There are a few (relatively) newly composed Mass settings, some of which wish to recapture the chant. My family and I don't attend the Mass according to the rite of Paul VI, so I can't tell you if any of those Mass settings are any good, but surely they are the exceptions rather than the rule.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    You have looked at the three ICEL settings on their website, right? I use Memorial Acclamation "A" because it translates more closely to the meaning of Mortem Tuam.
  • smvanroodesmvanroode
    Posts: 966
    If your are looking for chant settings of the two other Latin acclamations, these can be found here (taken from Psallite Domino, Canti per la Messa by Solesmes).
    Thanked by 3canadash CHGiffen NatePultorak
  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 331
    I use Memorial Acclamation "A" because it translates more closely to the meaning of Mortem Tuam.


    But the other two aren't meant to be translations of the Mortem tuam, but of

    Quotiescumque manducamus panem hunc
    et calicem bibimus,
    mortem tuam annuntiamus, Domine, donec venias

    and

    Salvator mundi, salva nos,
    qui per crucem et resurrectionem tuam liberasti nos.

    I'm not sure why one would have a preference for one over the other.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Ben
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I'm not sure why one would have a preference for one over the other.


    Because the priest preferred that one. Can you think of a better reason? LOL. Some think the B and C sound a bit contrived or Vatican II happy-clappy-warm-and-fuzzy. I don't know why. I have wondered if that reaction is because of the totally made-up and infamous, "Christ has died..." Who knows?
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    The pre-2010 "Christ has died..." acclamation was not "totally made-up." Both it and the second acclamation at that time ("Dying, you destroyed...") were translations (although neither was literal, but dynamically equivalent) of the Latin Mortem tuam annuntiamus, Domine, et tuam resurrectionem confitemur, donec venias.

    The thinking in 1969 was: why do we need to say "we announce/proclaim" (annuntiamus) and "we confess/profess" (confitemur) when we are engaged in the very act of announcing and professing when we say "Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again" or "Dying, you destroyed our death; rising, you restored our life; Lord Jesus, come in glory"?

    "I say, you are beautiful." or "You are beautiful." Which is more direct?
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • rarty
    Posts: 96
    While the first acclamation (Mortem tuam) is probably the most popular because it is first, shorter, still obviously based on 1 Cor 11:26, and explicitly mentions the Resurrection as the object of our faith, the second acclamation (Quotiescumque) is the most completely scriptural.

    1 Cor 11:26
    Quotiescumque enim manducabitis panem hunc et calicem bibetis, mortem Domini annuntiatis, donec veniat.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    The thinking in 1969 was:


    OK guys, we have been given an inch. Let's see how many miles we can take. LOL.

    Thank the Lord Pope Benedict demanded accurate translations.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    Thank the Lord Pope Benedict demanded accurate translations.

    Actually Liturgiam authenticam was promulgated during the pontificate of St. John Paul II. Don't blame it on Pope Benedict.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Actually Liturgiam authenticam was promulgated during the pontificate of St. John Paul II. Don't blame it on Pope Benedict.


    You are correct on the timeframe. CDW March 28, 2001.

    LA was a good thing, not bad. After publication of the revised missal, I heard priests whine about such words as "consubstantial" with the complaint that "no one understands it." Why don't they understand it, fathers? Could it be you did a lousy job of teaching and explaining it?

    In 1969, having been there and at the age of 22, I encountered many liturgists, authors, musicians, and composers who thought they were far more talented than they actually were. Much of what they produced was faddish and of no lasting value. If we had been blessed with the best and the brightest in those fields, reforms and adherence to L.A. would not have been needed.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,959
    Benedict did insist on pro multis being rendered as “for the many” himself...
    Thanked by 2CharlesW CCooze
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    The Maronite Church's liturgy also has a memorial acclamation and a text similar to Mortem tuam in particular; though I don't know who took it from whom.

    They have:

    "O God, we remember your death,
    we witness that you rose from among the dead,
    we await your return.
    May your mercy come upon us all."

  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    Benedict did insist on pro multis being rendered as “for the many” himself...

    If he did so insist, he was not followed. The presently-approved English text is "for many," not "for the many."
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Here is the acclamation that we use at Walsingham. It is rather nice. Chant-like. Mode I. I have no idea of its provenance.image
    img047.jpg
    1896 x 456 - 200K
    img047.jpg
    1896 x 456 - 200K
    Thanked by 1eboydston1
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Jackson,

    While I have no actual use for this (because my usual Mass is EF) I agree with you that this has a chant-like feel, and the skill of Anglican musicians in its syllabification.

    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
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