Marian recessional
  • Jazzer
    Posts: 34
    Hi folks,

    I'm having a hard time being the music-chooser...

    I'm about to be the cantor for an a cappella Sunday Mass this weekend, the 13th Sunday in Ord Time.
    I have a question, one which I haven't found a definitive answer for in the GIRM or on the interwebs.

    Is it OK to sing a traditional Marian hymn outside of May and October for the recessional?

    I know it is not part of the mass, and that by virtue of that fact, prettymuch anything goes... I can tell you I have heard some real stinkers lobbed on the congregation in the past, and while I know that doesn't justify any errors I might make, I'm sure that any Marian hymn would be better than some of those other ones.....

    My particular issue is that since we are singing a cappella, we need something well written that everyone knows.
    Also, as it happens there are never Marian hymns sung in my parish, even during May and October and Marian feasts.

    If I decide to, it will be either Immaculate Mary or Hail Holy Queen Enthroned.

    Thanks
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,698
    Sure that would be fine, but the Salve Regina would be even better.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,048
    Hail Holy Queen is better for singing a cappella than Immaculate Mary, given that there are two common versions of the metering of the refrain (one of which follows the original French - using a pick-up - the other of which doesn't), and congregations can be mixed in terms of familiarity with either. HHQ is also at least a paraphrase of a Roman liturgical hymn.

    For my money, the universal Marian widget is the Magnificat, including metrical vernacular paraphrases, from among which there are many to choose. It's the best Scriptural model for what to say when one has received the Lord.


    Thanked by 1Paul F. Ford
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    Go for it! I'll bet the congregation will happily sing either!
    Thanked by 1Andrew_Malton
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Jazzer,

    Some time ago there was a canard circling over head, according to which Marian hymns couldn't be sung at Mass, period. It's a nonsensical idea - regardless of how commonly held it is.

    I second what has already been said here, that HHQ is quite acceptable, as is Immaculate Mary, (presuming that you all agree on a text variant and a rhythmic variant in advance) and the Magnificat is also appropriate. In fact, it was once the common practice to sing a Marian antiphon after Mass all the time.

  • Jazzer
    Posts: 34
    We rehearsed today, and we all agreed on Hail Holy Queen... What I didn't quite anticipate was the pickup into the 2nd and 3rd verses... One is tempted to really let the "Salve Regina" ring out... but there are only three beats there, and then beat four is the pickup into the next verse... I anticipate a trainwreck when the congregation joins us. (I'll be on the mic so I'll be the "conductor" of that train, as it were)
    We'll stress a rit... for the last Salve Regina and let the last note really ring. And then it will be straight to the parish BBQ for feed(back).
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Jazzer,

    No need to manufacture a crisis. If you don't sing the beginning of the second and third verses in strict time, no liturgical/musical policeman will give you a citation.

    Thanked by 1canadash
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,501
    Yes! Please give people time to breathe and figure out that they have to begin again!
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,313
    Definitely don't feel obligated to do it strictly in time.
  • Jazzer
    Posts: 34
    Thanks guys.. I've seriously been stressing out over this all day, and then I read this.

    :)

  • Jazzer
    Posts: 34
    This week, we will try a Marian Pro- AND- Recessional!
    "That unfortunate Lourdes Hymn" (in 3/4), and "Hail Holy Queen"...

    With this program of propers... Might not get all the way thru introit.... mode 4 is hard.

    August the 16th is prettymuch the same day as August the 15th.... in the graaaande scheme of things.. so there will be no rules broken with a Marian entrance + LC Propers + Marian anthem exit....

    Here is the copy the people in the pews will be reading from.


    20OT-B-LC Program.pdf
    3M
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,760
    In England and I am sure other places it was / is traditional to sing the Marian Anthem after the end of Sung Mass...

    Now in the OF with its trends to be more inclusive and to reach back to (some) of the worship of early Christians... I am sure that we could start looking at all of the feasts of Our Lady that have and are celebrated. When we include former Octaves I am sure we will find that most Sundays of the year are feasts of Our Lady and so can be commemorated by the singing of a Marian Hymn...

    This Sunday was in some places Sunday within the Octave of the Assumption and had its own Marian Sequence (Adam of St Victor).
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen CCooze
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,177
    Excellent point, tomjaw.
    Thanked by 1tomjaw
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Tomjaw,

    The logical conclusion of "inclusive" is this: INCLUDE Latin; INCLUDE chant; INCLUDE Corpus Christi processions; INCLUDE altar rails.

    Suddenly, I find myself overflowing with enthusiasm for inclusion.
    Thanked by 1Lars
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,077
    Is there ever a time when it is NOT appropriate to sing a hymn to Our Lady in a Catholic church? I mean, besides the middle of the homily?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,460
    I mean, besides the middle of the homily?


    No. Even then.
    Thanked by 2JL Cantus67
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    I mean, besides the middle of the homily?


    No. Even then.

    And, often, that would be an improvement.
    Thanked by 6JL CHGiffen Adam Wood Cantus67 Jeffrey Quick StimsonInRehab
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,965
    Is there ever a time when it is NOT appropriate to sing a hymn to Our Lady in a Catholic church? I mean, besides the middle of the homily?


    I was told to never use Marian music during communion.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,442
    I was told to never use Marian music during communion.

    One of the options in GS App III is the Magnificat, it is explicitly permitted at any Mass.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,965
    Large pastor superseded GS.
    Thanked by 2Adam Wood Spriggo
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 2,190
    I have been told that as well, but it is common to sing polyphonic settings of the Marian antiphons or hymns during Communion. There is no current legislation on this point in the Extraordinary Form (the context where I hear this most frequently).
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,698

    Large pastor superseded GS.


    If he was a thin or short pastor, would the GS reign supreme over him?
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,965

    If he was a thin or short pastor, would the GS reign supreme over him?


    Go work for him, THEN you can ask.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Speaking of Marian recessionals, I think "Sing we of the Blessed Mother" (ABBOT'S LEIGH) is a grand choice.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtnEv8F6dN4

    Another lovely one is "Ye who own the faith of Jesus" (DEN DES VATERS SINN GEBOREN)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbYGDFI8TZ4

    The third verse is acapella, by the way.

    Love the "Hail Mary, full of grace" refrain at the end of each verse. : )
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,077
    My reason for not going Marian for Communion is that you can do it for Offertory, and there's so much good music for Communion that you wouldn't want to displace any of it.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    On Saturdays of Ordinary Time, you can have a Saturday Mass of the Blessed Virgin Mary, provided that there are no other feasts which take liturgical precedence.

    However, for Sunday masses, it isn't wrong as such, but there are better choices than to do Marian motets. Marian recessional hymns are quite common in some places though.

    Today was the Memoria of the Queenship of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and I used "Hail Queen of Heaven, the Ocean Star." as the recessional. Turns out that it was quite a good choice, as the priest decided to start a Novena to Our Lady as we have permission next Sunday to celebrate the Feast of Our Lady of Czestochowa. (Parish is run by a Polish order of Monks)
  • Liam
    Posts: 5,048
    The Pius X Hymnal and other hymnals Ted Marier helped create include the gem, Thou Art The Star of Morning.

    This is a reduction: http://www.traditionalcatholicliving.com/thou-art-the-star-of-morning/
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