What's your favorite Gregorian Mass Ordinary?
  • VilyanorVilyanor
    Posts: 388
    My parish always uses Missa de Angelis (outside of Advent and Lent), which is fine, but I've been perusing the different Masses, and found I greatly appreciate Missa IX Cum Jubilo. It helps the first two chants are in my (probably) two favorite modes, I and VII. Of course, Mode 5 in the Sanctus and Agnus is lovely as well.
  • My condolences that you always use Missa de Angelis outside of Advent and Lent. It's not an evil Mass setting, and I don't mean to suggest that it is. On the other hand, pizza with ice cream is fun once in a while, but not every day, at every meal!
    Thanked by 1Vilyanor
  • Carolus16
    Posts: 20
    Our schola has only been singing for two years, so I'm not sure how consistent we'll end up being, but so far we've used: Mass I from Easter to Pentecost, Mass II from Christmas to Epiphany, Mass XI for Ordinary Time, and Masses IV and IX on certain other occasions, with Mass XVII for Advent and Lent. I find things to enjoy in each one, but I think Masses II and IV are my favorites so far.
  • This is difficult. My favourite? It depends on what day it is.
    My two unfavourites are easier: Orbis factor and de Angelis (not to mention XVIII most of all).
    Cum jubilo and Pater cuncta come to mind as especially nice. But, they are all especially nice, except the unfavourites mentioned above. I am puzzled that the mass for Eastertide, Lux et origo, is one of the simplest. One would rather think that the mass for Eastertide would be somewhat melodically extravagant. Not so! Too, a number of the ad libitum kyries are really fantastic. They should be used more often.
    Thanked by 2gregp Ralph Bednarz
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    Definitely Mass I.
  • hartleymartin
    Posts: 1,447
    If you want to change things a little, use Missa De Angelis for Easter and Christmas, Orbis Factor for Ordinary Sundays and Mass XVII for Lent and Advent.

    Also, I would use Credo III for Easter and Christmas, and Credo I for most of the rest of the liturgical year.

    The question is whether or not you want congregations to sing the chant ordinaries. You would have make Kyriales available in the pews and on the hymn board put up "Mass" and a number.
    Thanked by 1canadash
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    I love Mass I and Mass XI, but my favorite is Mass IV. surveying the inventories of chant manuscripts, this is the Mass Ordinary that was was most widely distributed throughout the history of manuscript transmission of the chant.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Mass V, Missa Magnae Dei potentiae is my favorite right now at this moment, but Mass VI, Missa Rex Genitor, and Mass VII, Missa Rex Splendens are also huge favorites and Mass XIV and Mass II are mystical and enchanting. I really can't say which one is my absolute favorite---that would be like asking what my favorite flower, or my favorite ice cream is since I've never seen a flower I didn't love, or ice cream that I didn't like, though if I had to have an absolute favorite flower it would be a violet, and plain homemade vanilla custard ice cream beats all else in my estimation.

    Thanks for asking; that was fun. : )
    Thanked by 1Vilyanor
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Mass XIII is one of my favorites; also VII and IV. But then again, so is XI, I, and IX. And then there's X and XVII. It's hard to choose...

    Then you get into single movements and alternate chant traditions. Which Kyrie 'Orbis Factor' is the best? Vatican Edition, or the Vatican Ad Lib version, or the Cistercian, or Sarum?
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    I would love to say I had a favorite, but I can not. I do not know any but Missa de Angelis. It is very unfortunate, I am required to sing only Masses in the pew missal of choice at the Church where I play and they only have the "Chant Mass" setting which is a combination of a few ordinaries. So I guess my favorite would be Missa de Angelis because I know it and can play it from time to time.
  • StimsonInRehabStimsonInRehab
    Posts: 1,916
    I love Mass XII. Bruckner called his first symphony The Saucy Maid; I think of all of the Gregorian ordinaries, XII deserves that title.
  • Um, how does one say 'The Saucy Maid' in Latin?
    I'm sure it would be a very interesting trope!
    Mass XII, Missa........
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    Um, how does one say 'The Saucy Maid' in Latin?

    Auf Lateinisch weis ich nicht wie man das sagt, doch auf Deutsch sagt man "das kecke Beserl."
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • JonLaird
    Posts: 242
    I'm not sure I understand the antipathy towards Mass VIII. Strangely, I somewhat disliked it until we sang it for four Masses a weekend for the entire season of Easter and Trinity and Corpus Christi (at the pastor's direction). Then what I discovered was that I didn't dislike Mass VIII; rather, I dislike the existing accompaniments -- all of them. There is something cheap about most of them, and it is a cheapness which I previously and incorrectly attached to the chant itself. Either sing it a cappella, or come up with an innovative accompaniment. We did a combination of the two.

    So I will be the outcast who rather loves Mass VIII, repetition having increased my appreciation.

    Yet if I had to pick a favorite, it would be Mass IX.

    I must admit a certain psychological attachment to the Sanctus of that Mass; my first "aha" moment of recognizing a Gregorian chant theme in secular music was when the familiar melody (which I had heard in my church growing up) of that Sanctus rose up gloriously out of the Catacombs in Respighi's Pines. I first heard it as a high school freshman, when I played the organ part for the county youth orchestra's performance of that work. It took several years before I realized why that melody was so familiar.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9KNGEVuBqMQ
  • Carolus16
    Posts: 20
    my first "aha" moment of recognizing a Gregorian chant theme in secular music was when the familiar melody (which I had heard in my church growing up) of that Sanctus rose up gloriously out of the Catacombs in Respighi's Pines.

    My first was hearing the second "Sanctus" of Mass II and thinking it sounded like the Temple of Time chant from the video game The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. On a more serious musical note, I find that the beginning of Arvo Pärt's third symphony bears a resemblance to the Kyries of Mass IV and Mass XI.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Some people disfavor Mass VIII due to its late composition (16th century: why, it's so tonal, not modal!). Also, it's overused.

    I suspect that some people favor it to the point of overuse because of its tonality; and due to its nickname, combined with the impulse to express a little appreciation for the Holy Angels. If it were called Missa de apostolis, for example, it might not get nearly the fan base it has.

    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • hilluminar
    Posts: 119
    I am all over the board. My favorites are: the Kyrie from Mass X "Alme Pater", which Eric Werner describes in his book "The Sacred Bridge", as being "of extraordinary symmetry and beauty." And it "shows the highest level of musical craftsmanship."

    I love the Sanctus from Mass XI "Orbis Factor", for its somber beauty, and the Agnus Dei from Mass IV "Cunctipotens Genitor Deus", for its peaceful and contemplative feel.

    Mass II "Fons Bonitatis" was composed by a master and it too shows perfect symmetry and beauty.

    Kyrie I ad libitum "Clemens Rector", and Sanctus I ad libitum are certainly worthy also.

    The following ad libitum Ordinary parts sound really intriguing, but I have never experienced them being sung:
    Kyrie II sounds cool, Kyrie XI is nice, Gloria III is pretty, Sanctus II is interesting.
    Thanked by 1Ralph Bednarz
  • Xav
    Posts: 23
    puella petulans
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • JonLaird
    Posts: 242
    Some people disfavor Mass VIII due to its late composition (16th century: why, it's so tonal, not modal!).

    I have notes indicating that the Gloria was composed in the 16th century, the Kyrie and Agnus in the 15th, and the Sanctus in the 12th. Is this incorrect? I don't recall precisely where I got that information.

    [Edit:
    Found it here:
    http://media.musicasacra.com/publications/caecilia/caecilia_v60n12_1933_12.pdf]
  • Caleferink
    Posts: 429
    I've always liked XI, "Orbis factor." To me, and for lack of better terms at this early hour of the morning, there's just an ultra-mystical / mysterious / haunting quality about it that I love.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Mass IX is always lovely.
    Thanked by 1Ralph Bednarz
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    I agree with Dr. Mahrt: Mass IV! It was the ordinary for my nuptial Mass...6 years ago yesterday! I can never decide how good a "congregational Mass" it is. I think Orbis Factor (and maybe Mass XII?) the easiest for modern ears to hear and respond to; Mass VIII is more familiar, but is much more florid.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    There was a thread about Gloria de angelis a while ago. I still don't quite understand if the centuries indicated in the Solesmes books refer to the oldest or merely the principal sources.
  • Kyrie Rex Splendens, etc., and Kyrie stelliferi Conditor, etc., without a doubt.
  • Got to hear Mass IV for the first time. Have sung it once (so that doesn't count as hearing). My wife had it in her missal, but I didn't -- and 2 rug rats were between us, so I couldn't see.
  • a_f_hawkins
    Posts: 3,371
    I still don't quite understand if the centuries indicated in the Solesmes books refer to the oldest or merely the principal sources.

    For a history of Missa de Angelis try Caecilia vol 60 no12, Dec 1933 http://media.musicasacra.com/publications/caecilia/caecilia_v60n12_1933_12.pdf.
    Thanked by 1Richard Mix
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    Though I only sing Mass VIII and very occasionally Kyrie XI, I like to improvise on the ad libitum Kyrie Firmator sancte for communion.
  • VilyanorVilyanor
    Posts: 388
    Okay, maybe I'm just crazy, but is Kyrie VII a subtle reference to Christ as the Alpha and Omega? I was listening to it without consulting the score, and I was so sure it was mode I, but when I looked, it is indeed mode VIII. Throughout, it carries a tonal quality and structure common to mode I, but then finishes on Sol, making it mode VIII. Again, Alpha and Omega?
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • I am stuck speechless from Vilyanor's icon .
    Thanked by 1Vilyanor
  • VilyanorVilyanor
    Posts: 388
    Haha, Ralph, I didn't see this till now. Last Halloween I decided to dress up as my favorite writer and intercessor, Chesterton, and walked around all night as if I was an old, fat Englishman. It was great fun.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Mass I is gorgeous, as is Mass IX.
  • stulte
    Posts: 355
    Mass IX is a favorite. I second what Salieri said about Mass XIII Stelliferi Conditor Orbis.