Send our priest out there. He would say something in that situation, and he would be very direct, viz: "...I know we're all happy to see each other, but this is God's house and I must remind you of the sacrifice which we are about to remember." He would not continue with Mass until he got the silence the sacrifice deserves.

We omit the sign of peace at most funerals.

In some places, the parish church has become headquarters for a funeral industry. Protestant relatives tend to ask for the sappy stuff they sing in their church gatherings, and many Catholics have become as bad. The priests make money on funerals and usually the parish gets a fee for the use of the building. I half-way joke about us having a funeral for Rover, the Catholic dog, one of these days. There is also a wedding industry in beautiful churches that make good backdrops for wedding photos. The priests should know better, but the money is good and contributes to the priestly vacation fund. LOL.

The priests at my very affluent parish are sometimes paid, sometimes not, for funerals; the deacons are lucky to get anything at all, ever. My parish has a large and very busy bereavement ministry, but the church doesn't get a red cent for their work -- this includes the use of the Chapel or Sanctuary (depending on how many people are expected), helping the family plan the funeral Mass, arranging a reception, and holding the family's figurative hand through the process in general.

I need not remind any Catholic that burying the dead is one of the Corporal Works of Mercy, so to suggest that churches are doing funerals out of venality is uncharitable at best. I can't speak for every parish or every priest, but at my parish, they do funerals as an act of love. I have also seen more than a few non-practicing Catholics come back to the faith at least in part because our pastor encouraged them to turn to Christ in their grief.

I need not remind any Catholic that burying the dead is one of the Corporal Works of Mercy, so to suggest that churches are doing funerals out of venality is uncharitable at best

Nothing uncharitable about it. I know of one cash-strapped parish that looks to any extra service as a way to generate income. It happens, although the weddings are more profitable than funerals. The church is also a business, not just a charitable enterprise. Many parishes have closed over finances.

I've been thinking that I need to start at the funeral home; at the very least there should be something written up to be a kind of guide to the service and et c. - yes?

The church is also a business, not just a charitable enterprise. Many parishes have closed over finances.

I am sure the latter is true but I do hope the former isn't, anywhere.

I have quite worrisome feelings when I hear here and there that parishes should be run like businesses, and that priests need a more thorough grounding in business matters. One, of course, does not question that the fabric of churches should be intelligently administered and wisely dispensed. Still, the business paradigm is troublesome, to put it mildly. Actual business-ship is soul-less, concerned with the proverbial 'bottom line', and sees through lens which have few if any moral aspects beyond staying within the law and, thus, out of trouble, and, thus, able to make even more profits. This is not the paradigm suggested to us in the life, example, and personhood of Jesus. Business and Church are, it seems to me, polar opposites in motivation, moral fibre, and purpose.

It was with deep sadness that I sat with a colleague of mine several years ago across the desk of a priest at the local seminary, a priest who had some measure of responsibility for the seminarians' formation, who, as we spoke of music and liturgy, said with a face of stone that 'the days of the praying priest are over - we are training administrators'. I was overcome with a coldness that swept through my whole person, and could hardly keep from weeping. A priest, of course, is a man. He is just like the rest of us but for one very singularly important matter, namely, this man (as imperfect as all of us) is set aside to offer sacrifice. He is a sacerdotal person. Ideally he is a real God-person, a holy man, a man of prayer, service, and sacrifice. He is not a businessman, he is not concerned with the bottom line or with making a profit. He wisely tends to the solvency of the church only to the end that it may perform its role amongst mankind, that it is a beacon and source of fides, spem, and caritas. Any training, any formation, any mind-set that is at odds with his sacerdotal nature, the living out of his sacred role with integrity, is essentially wicked. There are far too many men who get ordained who really are not holy men, who are niggardly in the 'wasting' of the 'precious ointment' in order that the Lord's worship might be as splendid, its music as glorious, as possible. The offering of sacrifice together with 'sacrificed' treasure is the thing that a priest does. If he does not do this zealously and lead a holy life, there is no reason for him to be called 'father'. He is the wolf in sheep's clothing.

I have heard tales, and know that some of you have, as well, of architectural treasures on valuable property being sold and razed even though the parish was solvent, because a philistine bishop wanted the millions for some pet project - a project which would in all likelihood be housed in an architectural embarrassment. That such philistines ever get ordained, and, yet, are made bishops is a calumny that cries to heaven for redress. No, let us not have such men lordshipping it over us. Let us not think of them as 'father' and 'excellency' - because they are not. They are businessmen. Of priesthood they are a mockery.

Be extravagant in your praise of God in the public worship of the Church.
Be faithful to the call you have received.
Be frugal in your creature comforts.

Pray for your daily bread. Remember: God will not be outdone in generosity.

Bonniebede -
Many thanks for the nuanced comments on my words. I had, actually, felt a little bad that what I wrote may have been too judgmental and negative. While I stand by the substance of my words, I should hasten to add that I believe that the vast majority of our priests strive to fulfill their sacred calling and are entitled to our prayers and thanks for so doing. There are too many of whom my remarks apply, but most are a blessing to their people. I could not count the ones whom I have known or merely met, the emanations of whose presence were all but like what the woman who reached out to touch the hem of Jesus' garment experienced. I think that knowing such men makes it even harder to comprehend the callous ones who fit my words above, who, but for the results of the Donatist controversy would be run out of town and wouldn't remain priests and prelates at all. And, yes, you are spot on about the sacredness of work. I meant no denigration of it.

words mean things

Yes. I don't have a problem with our shepherds 'leading' or 'empowering' us but the word 'business' struck a (dis)chord with me because it is a synonym not only for 'work' but also for 'trade'. To my mind, what a parish receives in $£€ and offers in sacraments, services, catechesis etc are gifts to the Lord and one another, not trades.

Also, I understand that churches close for financial reasons and that not every priest has administrative skills but I would suggest that that a lack of funds will often exist because a parish does not have enough won souls, committed to its life and mission, to contribute them, which is the real lack.

OK, let's substitute the term "management skills" for "business skills." Being a pastor is an administrative position requiring good management skills. Those skills include knowledge of human relations, accounting, finance, and management. How many parishes have been run into the ground by holy, yet essentially idiot pastors with no management skills? Despite finance councils, it happens too often.

I worry that the seminarians I talk to get no advice on how to cook for themselves, in the UK our priest shortage is such that men go almost directly from an institutional environment to living alone.

I understand fully. Too many priests have no experience in anything other than the corporation called, "The Church." I have seen them go from high school, to college, to seminary, to being priests with no practical experience in much of anything else.

Also, I understand that churches close for financial reasons and that not every priest has administrative skills but I would suggest that that a lack of funds will often exist because a parish does not have enough won souls, committed to its life and mission, to contribute them, which is the real lack.

That happens when the parish membership shrinks - sometimes caused by "won souls" fleeing the pastor and going elsewhere to get away from him. It also happens from members who never had much in the way of money to begin with, such as an elderly congregation where most are on social security. I have seen instances where those who have the money will not support a parish that is financially mismanaged. Many reasons, not all of them so simple.

But we have strayed from the topic of this thread!

Heck, that's our favorite pastime. LOL.

Then again, I've encountered pastors who were late vocations who had been seasoned in the business world, and who have no idea that the power they possess on paper as pastors in the Roman Catholic church is not what it seems at first blush: it assumes Roman cultural practices of deep and wide behind-the-scenes familiarization and consensus-seeking, not Anglospheric technocratic cultural practices.

Although the parish priest is personally responsible, canon law lays down that he should must have a finance committee to advise him, so he should not need a good head for business himself.

But there is nothing in canon law that says he has to follow their advice. So it's a joke, should or must.

Interestingly, after having just read this thread last Friday, I heard the "parish is a business" model clearly presented during Mass this past Sunday. Right after the homily, Fr introduced a member of the finance council to speak from the ambo (gave the appearance it was an extension of the homily). We are on the verge of a new fiscal year, so got a pep talk on how we need to give more to make up for the current deficit. Mr. S is a financial advisor and he spoke plainly of the parish as a business. He talked about all the "wonderful" programs at our parish and how, if any of us have participated in any of them, we need to be giving more to keep them running. (This reminded me of a PBS fundraiser that said, "If your kids ever watched Sesame Street and learned to read, you need to give us money.") Of course, nothing was said about what the Church means, not one mention of the Mass or any sacraments, nothing about what it means to be Catholic. And, woe be to us, there are so many projects waiting in the wings because we just don't have the money to carry them out (like pew cushions).

We have been down this path in earlier Forum Discussions.
It is NOT a committee.
Go to the vatican.va website and look at the Canon Law yourself.