Newbie question about EF
  • SarahJ
    Posts: 54
    My understanding is that there is a specific ordinary of the Mass assigned for every Sunday, feast day, etc. (Like Mass II for Pentecost). Where I can I find the information to know which ordinary setting to use for which day?
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 468
    Which Mass is assigned for which celebration is listed in the Liber Usualis (and perhaps also in the Graduale and editions of the Kyriale?). The assignment is somewhat different in the 1962 edition vs. earlier editions, because of the calendar reforms in the 50's.

    These assignments are not generally thought to be strictly obligatory, though they do provide a nice variety throughout the year. There's another set of ad libitum (freely choosable) music in its own section that can be used to replace the "assigned" settings in the Kyriale.
    Thanked by 2SarahJ ClergetKubisz
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,046
    It's not like the Proper. There are suggestions, and traditions, but it's not "wrong"/illicit to do a different Ordinary (if it were, how could we have polyphony?). My crew did Mass II for Pentecost-Corpus Christi. That's marked "for solemn feasts" in my Liber. Before that we did (mostly) Mass 1 for Eastertide, and now we're onto XI for the green season. We'll do that a couple Sundays to "set the tone", and it will be our go-to until Advent. But in the next month we'll also be doing XIII, and the Rheinberger Op. 62, and at some point I want them to learn a 2-part Mass setting (which one I haven't decided yet).
    Thanked by 1SarahJ
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Besides the suggestions in the Liber, there is a note on p. 78 stating that it is OK to mix and match among the Mass settings, excepting the Ferial settings. Also, the "ad libitum" chants may be used.
    Thanked by 1SarahJ
  • Jeffrey,

    Traditions should be discarded or disregarded with great care.

    The only tradition I can think of that I would like to see discarded, and, if possible, publicly disavowed, is the tradition of singing Missa de Angelis at every Mass at which music is used.
    Thanked by 1Arthur Connick
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Isn't that in the same vein as singing the Mass of Cremation, the My Little Pony Mass, or any other Mass Ordinary setting all the time at every Mass at which music is used?

    This is a side note, but: does anyone else get annoyed when people do not capitalize "Mass" when used to refer to the highest action of worship that a human can undertake?
    Thanked by 2JulieColl eft94530
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    Well, IIRC, the Liber is a relatively new book (only dates to the end of the 19th century), and it's not clear how much the suggestions represent widespread traditional practice going back before that.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    As a victim of MDAOD (Missa de Angelis Overload Disorder) I must use caution when programming Mass VIII so we sing it once a year at Christmas time which is plenty since I have sung it or heard it at least 20,000 x in my lifetime.

    We have found that this process of singing it only once a year has put us on the road to closure and healing, and as the years go by are becoming more optimistic that someday Mass VIII will not produce such visceral negative reactions.

    As an antidote, we regularly comb the Kyriale for new Mass settings. Mass II is a fine choice for the Pentecost to Corpus Christi season, I think, and we really enjoyed Mass XIV for Advent and Lent. I have my eye on Mass III for the summer months. Masses V, VI and VII are great favorites with our congregation. There are moments in each that sound amazingly "modern," almost "conciliar"---e.g., the Agnus Dei from Mass VI:
    (NOH accompaniment recommended. )

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E98cHfy8Beg
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,046
    Traditions should be discarded or disregarded with great care.

    Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. But neither should one be a slave to them. Which of the 18 (plus!) Gregorian Masses are we going to sacrifice to the traditions of other Gregorian Masses?
  • "Finally, there should be no innovation unless the good of the faithful surely demands it."

    See, I'm a good Catholic in the Spirit of Vatican 2.



  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    ...does anyone else get annoyed when people do not capitalize "Mass" when used to refer to the highest action of worship that a human can undertake?

    No more so than when the musical genre is not written lower case. Where things get a bit murky is with proper titles: my guess is that Mass in B minor refers to The mass rather than The Mass. Or did you mean singing by "highest action of worship"?
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    I meant when specifically referring to The Mass.
  • gregpgregp
    Posts: 632
    As a victim of MDAOD (Missa de Angelis Overload Disorder) I must use caution when programming Mass VIII so we sing it once a year at Christmas time which is plenty since I have sung it or heard it at least 20,000 x in my lifetime.


    As lovely as it is, no variety in the Ordinary settings leads to all sorts of negative complications, even in the EF. I actually had one person ask me, incredulously, if it was licit to sing anything other than the Missa de angelis. I have often told my schola, and anyone who asks, that if people remember me for one thing, I would hope that it is for showing them that the "treasure of inestimable value" consists of more than Mass VIII and Credo III.

    Over the past 7 years, we have sung Masses I, IV, VIII, IX, XI, XV, XVI, XVII, and XVIII, as well several ad libitum chants and the "Hildegard" Mass setting. We will sing either II or XII starting in September - I haven't decided yet, In addition, we know the Byrd Mass for 3 voices, and a short polyphonic setting I did to add some variety (I submitted it for the New Music reading at the Colloquium this year).
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    If the capitalization of nouns were a sound indicator of orthodoxy and piety, the Germans, who capitalize all nouns, would generally be attending church on Sundays.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    If I think we should all capitalize things however we want, am I an AnarchoCapitalist?
  • bhcordovabhcordova
    Posts: 1,152
    This is a side note, but: does anyone else get annoyed when people do not capitalize "Mass" when used to refer to the highest action of worship that a human can undertake?


    Yes! Yes! A thousand times Yes! And church instead of Church when discussing the Catholic Church!
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    Capitalization shouldn't be a shibboleth - in either direction.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    The mass cycles in the Liber follow French traditions; I have looked at a number of sixteenth-century German graduals, and they have somewhat different cycles. For instance, since their classification of feasts is not by degree as in the Roman classification, double, semi-double, etc., but by kind, apostles, martyrs, etc., so in the German tradition Mass XI is for feasts of martyrs, Mass IV for apostles.

    Since my choir sings a polyphonic mass for most solemnities, while the congregation sings the ordinary on normal Sundays, I have alternated several masses through the Sundays, Mass I for Easter, XVII for Advent and Lent, but then IV, VIII, IX, XI throughout the other seasons.

    Concerning capitalization, Sacred Music follows the Chicago Manual of Style. It uses a rather "down" style, being sparing in the use of capitalization. It is admittedly a rather secular institution, but it is also an industry standard. The criterion is: the Mass as it refers to the Eucharist is capitalized, because of its close affinity with the Deity. On the other hand, mass as a composition is like symphony: Mass in B Minor, but we sang a mass by Josquin yesterday. The question of church is a question of whether it is used as a proper noun. The Catholic Church, BIshop Cordileone, but the church has bishops. The Second Vatican Council, but the documents of the council are all found online. This goes for clergy as well: Pope Francis, the pope. I realize that some of these are gray areas, but church and council are common nouns and so we use lower case, while Catholic Church and Second Vatican Council are proper nouns and in upper case.

    Names of services, such as Vespers are capitalized, and so Mass as a service. But common names of genres, such as introit, are not capitalized, unless the name is that of their beginning text, Magnificat. Alleluia gives a little trouble, so I do it both ways If we refer to Alleluia by itself, it is capitalized. But with other propers, such as gradual and alleluia, I leave it lower case. This is a bit picky, but it is good to be consistent. If you are interested, you can see our style sheet on our web site
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,217
    Capitalization shouldn't be a shibboleth - in either direction.


    Since the rules of grammar are disposable (according to your dictum above), which other rules shall we dump? Those of composition? Harmony? Respect for one's choir director?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Capitalization isn't part of grammar. It's part of orthography.

    But seriously: occasionally I see people making arguments about some subject or other, and using capitalization or the lack of it to make a distinction between two meanings of a word.

    Such an argument is weak, because it becomes meaningless when translated into a language with different capitalization customs, or even when presented in a country with different customs.

    So while I try to observe capitalization customs thoroughly (as a conservative should logically do), I don't treat other people's deviations as a moral failing.
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  • fcbfcb
    Posts: 331
    "Lord" in all caps or small caps is standard to indicate that the Hebrew word being translated is YHWH, not Adonai. It has nothing to do with denomination.
    Thanked by 2eft94530 MatthewRoth
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,217
    It's part of orthography.


    Yes, thanks. And there are a few "stylebooks" which are utilized. Strunk & White, AP, etc.

    So what? That doesn't go to the question I asked.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Your question assumes that
    Capitalization shouldn't be a shibboleth

    implies
    the rules of grammar [or orthography] are disposable

    but it doesn't.

    Thanked by 1Richard Mix
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,046
    Since the rules of grammar are disposable (according to your dictum above), which other rules shall we dump? Those of composition? Harmony? Respect for one's choir director?


    Since the rules of [orthography] are NOT disposable (per your implicit claim), which rules are we sticking with? 1900? 1600? 500BC? Likewise, which rules of composition? I presume you're with Artusi against Monteverdi.

    Expressing contempt for your choir director is a moral issue, therefore unchanging. But respect isn't a rule; respect needs to be earned.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,959
    I use Chicago style for my citations, so I observe the Chicago protocol when asked to do so by my professors, and I don't tend to capitalize words like "church" or the pronouns in reference to the divine in other writing. One, it seems less prejudiced in academic papers, and two, I realized capitalizing those words gets very annoying since English usage does not capitalize every noun.