Germany and Austria Liturgical Music Experiences
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,959
    I went to the Alte Kapelle in Regensburg this weekend. On Sunday, the choir was off, so the schola sang Mass VIII and the Propers. They sang a simplified Offertory, as far as I could tell, and a Gregorian responsorial Psalm (though not the one assigned to the day). The Alleluia was the Graduale version! Pope Benedict blessed the organ in 2006. It is phenomenal. It was also nice figuring out what the organist was improvising on. On Friday, feast of Mary, Patron of Bavaria, it was the chant Ave Maria, on Sunday it was the Regina Caeli (during and at the end of Communion respectively). The Mass was in Latin from at least the Preface Dialogue to the Communion verse (the Offertory was silent). Friday, the Mass texts were weird versions of the Ordinary from the Gotteslob, the official hymnal and missal for the German language...

    The parents visiting their kids here at my program in Austria went to the Vienna Boys Choir Mass. They sang Messe in D-molle by Bruckner, and the schola sang the Propers. There was apparently only one reading, and they followed it with the first Alleluia from the Graduale (I saw the order of service). They split the Sanctus, so the priest waited for them to finish. It is atrocious you have to pay to attend that Mass, however.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Very fascinating, and it's appalling that there was a fee attached to the Mass--is that on top of the "Church tax" Catholics in Germany must pay? What a racket! Isn't it forbidden to charge payment for the sacraments? Isn't that what made Luther leave the Church---the selling of indulgences?

    That being said, if I had the time and energy, I'd like to make a comparative study of the pre-conciliar liturgical traditions of France, Germany, Austria, Poland, Italy and England.
    Each tradition had something unique to contribute.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Here it is, I think: (from Wikipedia)

    Simony (pron. [ˈsaɪ.mə.ni] or [ˈsɪ.mə.ni]) is the act of selling church offices and roles. The practice is named after Simon Magus,[1] who is described in the Acts of the Apostles 8:9–24 as having offered two disciples of Jesus, Peter and John, payment in exchange for their empowering him to impart the power of the Holy Spirit to anyone on whom he would place his hands. The term also extends to other forms of trafficking for money in "spiritual things".[2][3] Simony was also one of the important issues during the Investiture Controversy.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,959
    Well, this was in Vienna, where the tax is much less. But indeed, both are appalling! As far as the tax goes, you know it is bad when everyone hates it, which is the case in Germany. Except, you know, the prelates who are material heretics...
    Thanked by 2StimsonInRehab JulieColl
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    The versified approximations of the Ordinary are really inadequate. I don't know why this is considered acceptable.

    The organ playing is often excellent.
  • mahrt
    Posts: 517
    The versified ordinaries are a long tradition in Germany. Long before the council, there was the Betsingmesse, the employment at a low Mass of hymns paraphrasing an ordinary movement, while the priest recited it in Latin. This was because the old rubrics prohibited singing the parts of the Mass in a low Mass, so they were "replaced" by a hymn. This should have disappeared when it was possible to sing any part of a spoken Mass, but something once begun scarcely ever disappears: "it's the way we have always done it."
    Thanked by 2hilluminar BruceL
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    The Singmesse was used in German parishes in the States too: e.g. , in the setting by Michael Haydn.
  • Andris Amolins
    Posts: 152
    For the EF, they (Germany, Austria, Switzerland) have also a Sung Mass version of the Betsingmesse, namely, the celebrant sings his parts in Latin, the choir/people sing the responses. The Kyriale and propers are replaced by German hymns, except for Credo, which is sung by everybody in Latin (III, as a rule). The celebrant at the altar, of course, reads in low voice the texts form the Missal. This was a widespread practice also in other Central and Eastern European countries, at least in parish churches. The Kyriale was sung in some places (De Angelis or some cecilian style SATB setting), but not propers.
  • JaredOstermann
    Posts: 483
    My understanding is that the German-speaking church has an official dispensation to continue using the vernacular Ordinary paraphrases. I can't give an exact reference, though - maybe someone here knows...
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,959
    Dr. Mahrt is still right: they should have gone away... I do not know why the bishops did not eliminate them at MR3’s introduction. That would have been a good time.

    I also hope that as Summorum Pontificum spreads, less than adequate practices in the EF can be replaced as well.
  • RomanticStringsRomanticStrings
    Posts: 337
    I imagine that it was "OK" because, "at least the priest says the full text." (Did I get that idea from an article in this latest issue of Sacred Music?). That is no longer a valid point, since the priest now merely says the Ordinary with the while congregation, so there is but one Ordinary. It better be the full and proper one!
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,959
    Yes, but it was supposed to be only at Low Mass as Dr. Mahrt said above.

    Further proof that we got a modified Low Mass as the norm after the 1960s...
    Thanked by 2Kathy CHGiffen
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    Dr. Mahrt is still right: they should have gone away... I do not know why the bishops did not eliminate them at MR3’s introduction. That would have been a good time.

    Supposedly because in Germany the bishops haven't yet introduced MR3.

    I also hope that as Summorum Pontificum spreads, less than adequate practices in the EF can be replaced as well.

    During WW2, the German Reich received an indult that allowed vernacular singing during Sung Mass; the propers were only compulsory for Convent Mass, Mass in seminaries and Solemn High Masses. Considering the fact that the Betsingmesse has its roots in the 18th century, it is certainly possible to claim an immemorable practice.
  • MatthewRoth
    Posts: 1,959
    I had asked about this in another thread, but it seems that MR3 has been introduced in some way. The Gotteslobdefinitely contains MR3, and the priest was (more than likely) using the Latin MR3. Of course, for the orations he could have gone back to the German MR2...It didn't seem like he did, unless MR2 wasn't as deficient as either MR1 or proposed MR2 were in English, so one wouldn't notice, even when making a response such as the "Suscipiat."

    I wonder how claiming immemorial custom would work with it having been interrupted by the council. (Considering customs were revived like 3 subdeacons in Vienna, probably nothing...) It's also possible that it's not the custom everywhere, or was not, as the case may be. Which I rather hope is the case, because it would be nice for priests to slowly eliminate it as they learn the EF. I like local diversity, but that shouldn't take away from the rubrics or the norm of the Mass being the Mass sung with Gregorian Propers and sung Latin-Greek Ordinary.
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