Rodgers York 650B Thoughts?
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    As some of you know we are building a new church and I would really like an organ when we dedicate the new church.
    The only problem is there is no budget for an instrument.
    There is a family that will donate the above instrument and I would like opinions of it for those who know it.

    I know its not a tracker or an actual pipe organ, but would it be better or worse than a keyboard, which is what we would be forced to use in stead?

    any suggestions would be helpful.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    Better than a keyboard, for sure.
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,295
    Yes, better than a keyboard.

    Is there really no way to put, say $50,000 into the budget for a mid-range digital? That way you could pay for it through the mortgage and wouldn't have to come up with the money all at once. Rambling now, but doesn't Rodgers/Roland offer 0% financing for something like 36-months?

    Can you tell I've talked to a salesman recently? :)
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    Well, I've been trying for the last 2 years, and it simply is not a priority for any one on the building finance committee. If I want an organ, I have to figure out a way to get it done. If I had the 50k I would put it up myself but I don't.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    $50,000 . . . for a mid-range digital


    I do not understand this.

    At all.
    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • henry
    Posts: 241
    Check the Organ Clearing House and see what $50K will get you for a used pipe organ.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    Folks, he said there is NO BUDGET for an instrument and not likely to be any in the foreseeable future. He's asking about whether a donated Rodgers York 650B instrument would be the best alternative, given the lack or resources. Talking about a $50K instrument is talking about something that is out of the question.
    Thanked by 3donr stulte Spriggo
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    we are building a new church

    How do the architect plans provide for an organ?
    Width? Height? Depth?
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,295
    If there is no chance of getting an organ another way, then I would definitely take the Rodgers. Just about anything is better than just using an "organ" sound on a digital keyboard.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    How sad that an entire new building is being built and the budget can not even be provided for a small, used instrument.

    It appears some priorities may be off. Building a church, but not providing for an "integral part" of the liturgy (SC 112)? Very unfortunate.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,499
    Pray and it will happen. Maybe not today but it can. Look here: http://casavantfreres.com/Jimdo/ProjectsTables/ProjectsPages/3911-PortPerry-Inspiration9.html

    This parish (near me) was not built for this organ, but by a few small miracles and the desire of the priest, they now have it. It fit into the space perfectly. It speaks beautifully in that space. Prior to this, they had an awful keyboard.

    Go with the Rodgers and pray for a miracle.
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen Ben dhalkj
  • If it's the model I'm thinking it is, it's pretty decent. Some of the individual voices are adjustable if I remember correctly. I started playing Masses on a 750B Scarborough 25 years ago when I was 10. The organ was purchased in 1978 for just under $25,000 and it's still there today. I hope to find them an orphan pipe organ someday if they get a sensible pastor.

    For what it's worth, I started my current position 3 years ago, and 6 weeks later, the parish moved into it's new church. There had been no provision for a new instrument of any kind, and the plan was to move the 30 year old Allen across the parking lot and have it play through the PA system. Fast-forward to summer 2014: I found the right orphan to fit the space after searching all over the country and raised the $100,000 we needed for the project in less than 6 months. Understand that the parish is ok financially and I have the full support of the pastor. So, miracles can happen.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • By the way, for those who haven't priced a new Allen lately, a mid-range 2 manual with draw knobs will set you back $85,000-$100,000. I got a quote just for the heck of it.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    How sad that an entire new building is being built and the budget can not even be provided for a small, used instrument.
    It appears some priorities may be off. Building a church, but not providing for an "integral part" of the liturgy (SC 112)? Very unfortunate.

    Ben, with all respect, when you have at least a couple of decades' worth of service on your curriculum , postulating the above doesn't help the OP. It's called "realpolitick." I'm facing the prospect of furnishing a 30,000 sq. proto-cathedral (and the third organ installation of my career) and "they" are allotting $2M for the entire interior furnishings. You don't sit with architects and engineers, pastors and donors, and quote Tra le sollecitudini as a proof text for yours or anyone elses' agenda. Eight years ago I sat opposite Duncan Stroik hoping that he'd be chosen our architect. The one they chose at least listened to the concept of organ chambers. I haven't see blueprints until a month ago for a church they want dedicated in three years. No thought was afforded the architecture for any organ chambering, wind or simulacrum. No thought was afforded the expense and design (via acousticians) regarding providing sound re-inforcement in a 2500 seat church. Then "they" come asking me for guidance and advice???
    Sorry, some of us don't need more platitudes.
  • Don't give up on getting an organ. Perhaps your donors would spend their money for a used organ such as referenced above. It certainly wouldn't hurt to broach the matter with them. This, no matter its size, would be preferable to the simulacrum under discussion. You should exhaust all possibilities before settling for a fake. You might even have some additional donors in the wings just waiting for a genuinely worthful cause. At least, may heaven forbid it, if you end up with a not-organ you will have done your finest.
  • Palestrina
    Posts: 364
    Organ chamber?! Why on earth would one ever build a church with a chamber? It's the worst possible place to put an organ.

    Do you think that the architect of St Peter's Basilica thought about positions for an organ? Santa Maria Maggiore? St Paul's in London? Not really. Organ builders later turned up and applied their genius within the constraints of the building.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Melo, I'd like to point out that I was quoting Sacrosanctum Concilium (from Vatican II), not Tra Le...and I was simply making an observation.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Usually church construction plans have to be approved by the diocese. It's a pity if that process doesn't treat the parish's music needs as a requirement.
  • ...platitudes...

    What a crass, boorish, and unhelpful assessment of smart advice that is spot on!
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Incidentally, how much does the Rodgers mentioned above go for?

    By the way: if the budget includes carpeting, is it thinkable to change that to a more sound-reflective flooring, and devote the savings to the organ fund?

    The plans may be made already, but one can always ask. :-)
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    Don, have you been to look at the instrument? If not, I'll come with if you'd like.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Mssrs. Yanke and Osborn,
    Is it not reasonable to "walk a mile in someone else's shoes" before uttering generalized, non-specific "smart advice" from afar? And yes, Ben, I knew you'd quoted SC, but I was referring to the portion of the 03 Motu that extols the pipe organ as the sole worthy instrument for worship. Jackson, characterize my remarks in any manner you wish, but advice that implies "where there's a will, there's a way" rarely finds its way in a conference among decision-makers who have to answer to a myriad of stakeholders whose interest and monetary concerns are specific and fixed.
    In the temporary, pre-fabricated building that serves now as the precursor to the new building, I found an unused analog Rodgers at a nearby parish in the deanery for which their pastor was more than happy to donate.
    And yes, I'm aware I'm crass, boorish and unhelpful, but thanks for your support.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    At present, it seems that you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If your choices are between a Rodgers and a Casio, I'd go with the Rodgers. However, I'd ask the family if they would mind if there was a stipulation that this be designated a temporary instrument, and that the goal would be for a real pipe-organ to be installed in about 10 years time, and begin a capital campaign for a new-used organ.

    I know that digital organs are not ideal, neither are up-right pianos, or fiberglass Sousaphones, but sometimes we have to make due with what we get. Life ain't perfect.
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    @MJM
    I have seen the instrument and the owner played it for me but I wouldn't mind your feed back. It is in Maricopa and at the guys house in his living room. He is a young man who will also be playing the instrument for as from time to time.

    @chonak
    The Archetect has been very wiling to assist with the design of the space and I was successful in talking them into extending the depth of the loft, beefing up the supports under where an organ would be placed, installing conduits in the floor for com wires between console and pipes, and not a spec of carpeting. The space is ready for an organ, I would just hate to have the dedication of our new church with out an instrument.

    We plan to be ready by next Triduum, how glorious would it be to have the space filled with beauty for the Gloria on Holy Thirsday and Easter Vigil.
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    extending the depth of the loft

    What is the *height* ?

    This is also important.
    My parish church "loft" floor to ceiling centerline apex is 14 feet.
    Insufficient space for 16 foot pipes for wind and pipe and space above.
    Impossible to have choir there because pipes sound into singer ears.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    Thanked by 1donr
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    eft94530 I will need to double check the height but I believe its at least 20' - 25' above the loft.
    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    thanks ClergetKubisz and CHGiffen. This information is handy.
  • Get your Rodgers rep in the area to visit and draw up a plan to install and voice it, with a long range plan to replace it when money permits with some or all of the money spent on getting it installed applied towards the purchase of a new one...that way everyone knows that it is "temporary", there will be less criticism of it since it is helping you move ahead.
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    Take the Rodgers! Ask if you can start an organ fund after the building is completed. It may take a long time, but you have to start somewhere!
    Thanked by 2eft94530 donr