I would scrap any and all ideas of singing in parts for the moment, personally. I would focus on simple english propers or lumen christi antiphons or something that can be taught by call-and-response. Get them integrated into the liturgy first, and worry about more interesting repertoire later.

musiclover,

First, do not lose hope! Know that God can work the greatest miracles out of the most humiliating failures, provided we trust him completely. As Paul says, "Rejoice always, pray constantly, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you." Later you may look on this time as a great blessing.

Almost 5 years ago, I entered my current post overseeing (not yet directing) three choirs with a total of around 50 (perhaps more) singers. Three months later, all of them except for 5 quit (I now contend that if it weren't for my pride and impertinence, we could still have most of them here). I attempted to maintain three choirs by recruiting short-term about 10 additional singers. Pushing on them repertoire which was far too difficult on a completely unrealistic timeline, we suffered severe casualties over the next six months.

To summarize the rest -- my first year was disheartening and humiliating. Subsequently I began to rethink my vision. By the grace of God I came to realize that I had to let it grow on His time and not on mine, that I had to do the best I could with the resources I had and accept the failures as being from God. It was an occasion for me to begin examining my own spiritual life, which I consider key to the proper management of a church music program.

What I did first was let go of the idea that we had the resources and skills to do the choral music that I wanted to do and to sing at Mass as often as I wanted. Regarding this last point, a mentor of mine, when lobbying for paid singers, will approach a parish business committee and draw a triangle with "frequent," "beautiful," and "inexpensive" at the three corners. Then he will say, "pick which two you want for the choir." Since we don't have money to hire singers, that meant singing infrequently in order to have sufficient time to prepare.

With repertoire, abandon singing in parts for now and concentrate on unison singing. This is for several reasons, both musical and practical:
-a choir which cannot sing beautifully in unison cannot sing beautifully in parts
-if a third of your choir for some reason does not show up on Sunday, you can still sing the music
-in my opinion, a strong unison phrase of music, well-sung, is much more powerful and penetrating than polyphony, and is easier to attain

We begin with the simplest of chants; namely, the chants in the Missal. In this early time, spend a good deal of time on basics: developing breath support, unifying vowel sounds, beauty and precision at the onset of sound. If your singers are anxious to "sing in parts," assure them that you are laying the foundation to do just that (understand that you likely will lose some who don't like what you are doing). Jared is right to suggest the Simple English Propers or Lumen Christi settings. Prepare for one, two, or three months these simple, beautiful chants, and the result will be more spiritually enriching (to yourself, the singers, and the congregation) than you can possibly imagine. Accept that you may never get the choir to the place where you want them to be, and this is ok. Go on God's time. When it is time to advance in repertoire, you will know.

Now, almost five years later, we have three choirs (I had pared it down to one for a while) who I daresay sing the most beautiful music this parish has yet seen. None of them sing every week. 90% of the music has been in unison until recently, when we are learning more and more hymns in parts. The size of the choir still fluctuates, but I do not get frustrated, nor do I fear for the future, because I trust that God will lead us where he knows is best.

Already having said too much in this long post which is doubtlessly onerous to read, I look and see the inadequacy of it. There is much to say that I have learned from my mistakes, but having bored you enough and expecting that others will have their say (and that you will follow up with specific questions), I will leave you with one more suggestion: let go of the children for now, or at least separate them. In learning the fundamentals, children and adults must be taught differently.

The priest should not be making musical decisions like this

We all know that is true, but it is irrelevant to the salient points of ml88's problem. RR's Simple Choral Propers were ideally composed, a capella SATB, homophonic, primarily diatonic with some modality, repetitive motifs, etc.
Knowing that Richard personally doesn't endorse alterations doesn't mean that he assumes everyone's singing them ideally. The melodies, per se, are accessible to the medium voice fach. If there is an accompanist available, let him/her take on the harmonic duties and get the choral unison, whether combined treble/bass or not, together along with the declamation of the verses. If ml88 has notational skills (Finale, Sibelius, well...), get creative.

I'm thinking I'm going to have the kids practice separately a half hour before the rest of the group and just focus on the ordinary for now (we're using Mass VIII so we'll have to focus on the Latin pronunciation), that way, they won't be totally overwhelmed but they will be able to participate.

Still not totally sure what to do about the propers, but I'm praying about it. Normally when the choir doesn't sing we just sing the soprano line of Rice's propers and have the organ play the parts, which sounds ok. Actually, the schola did that at Christmas because we didnt have enough people to sing in parts.

Melofluent, what exactly do you have in mind when you mention using Finale?

Thank you so much, everyone, for your replies. I feel a little more hope now.

Cool, I'm going to have to try that sometime. That could sound really nice if I did it right.

Here's a question: would it sound dumb to just sing the propers as a soprano/bass duet? My lone bass is really quite good and has his parts down, but if I tried to have him sing the soprano line an octave, lower it would still be too high. I could handle the soprano part by myself. If I could really work with my alto she could probably sing her part alone. I decided just to have me sing the verses and then have the group sing the antiphon for now to make it simpler.

My tenor might be in town and be able to sing this go around (he's the only one who can sight-read so I'm not worried about him), but I'm not going to count on that for now.

Rice propers, everyone on melody, accompany on organ. SATB choir not needed: Have strongest singer do the verses, and repeat as needed. They're simple, solemn, and useful. Maybe not to everyone's taste, but they set a more attainable bar for "sounding good" than the unison singing of SEP or Lumen Christi.

Fascinating. In an ecclesial and liturgical world wherein adaptation and accommodation, not to mention accretion, has been part and parcel of its own organic evolution, we still are instructed in absolutes that this or that authority deem are immutable.
Does this mean that all are equal, but some more equal than others?
Ridonculous.
This is, I think, a thematic question that runs through nearly every thread topic that's ever been written on this forum.
Adam Wood may be the very first free thinker to cogently assess a way forward that is, if nothing else, not tied to absolutes. And my admonition, lest some think its aimed at TRADITION (Tradition! sung by Tevye), and it's a matter of true faith versus error, that's the least of my concerns.

11:24am

Let me encourage you music lover to keep going.
Here is my experience for what it is worth.
Two years ago I started a schola for 6-9 yr olds. I have had about 20 kids go through, at the moment I have 6. In September we started a family choir, that means everyone in the family singing together, including the families of some of the schola children.
So my choir makeup is - one bass, one tenor, both confident and music readers, three adult women, who can sing soprano or alto, none read music, and varying levels of confidence. 4 children - three girls 1 boy in the 6-10 range, who being in the schola sing with confidence, though some distraction - also a few more from 0-6 who range from sing-alongers to total distractions, but I look on them as recruitable in time ;-) We sing Mass every week.

From this experience and reading what you have written , here is what I have found useful.
Practice the kids separately, on a different day. (We do a singing lesson 40 mins followed by Eucharistic Adoration 20 mins). This gives them a chance to learn at an apropriate level and at their own pace.
Practice the whole group together.
I put links to practice music - like ccc watershed stuff - on my website, so everyone should be learning the stuff at home, whether they read or not.

we have a short full group practice.

We plan music by season - advent, Christmas, the current 5 ordinary, etc. We might have a little variation, ie a choice of two communion chants, but for more complicated stuff we do the same one for the whole season - ie an SATB proper.
For the ordinary we are doing the missal chants.
by the end of each season we have built repertoire which can be used in the next appropriate season to add variation.

As we are serving at the family Mass , the expectation is that the congregation will be able to sing along and that it will be aimed as if for two year olds.
I just keep saying - yes this is a family mass, not a childrens Mass, so something for everyone. The chants are the simplest things, it is very child friendly. The children have a right to learn their heritage etc etc.

This season is our most developed to date - we are doing:
Entrance - a simple taize chant SATB, with the proper antiphon chanted to a simple psalm tone in between.
Psalm - Parish book of psalms adapted by one of the more competent adults.
Alleluia - Cardinal Pole from ccc watershed
Offertory - A SATB Proper by Aristotle Esguerra - one chosen from this seasons music, but repeated every week.
Communion - Choice of Taize chants - Ubi caritas or Eat this bread/ with Communion reflection O sacrament most holy
final Marian anthem - this season something well known with an AVE refrain.

The ordinary is the missal chants, accompanied on organ.

These are the goals I have worked towards - helping the children sing, and they all read chant now too. They can sing the harmonies - we started with rounds and now they are not put out by SATB, though they always carry the melody line (S)
Persuading the parish that simple and singable does not exclude the Propers. Oh, introducing the ideas of the propers in the first place.
SATB at a family Mass! But people are liking it, and bit by bit we progress.

Anyway there you go. Hope you find something useful. Keep going. The children are the future of liturgy - so keep teaching them chant.

OK ML88, makes sense. I'm wondering though whether it might be better to do something simpler but do it more often.

My guys are leaners. At first, if I stopped singing, so did they. Now they've gotten to where I can sing a different part. Their previous MD didn't trust them with a lot of the chant. I trust them with more of the Proper. They do the Introit and Alleluia now with no problem, the Communion in Advent/Lent. They could do the Offertory if we had more rehearsal time. They can do it because I made them do it, and realized it wouldn't be perfect at first. They still can't do it alone; if I can't be there, I write out psalm-tone Propers for them (coping with the layout of Rossini was a disaster).

I think that singers, like children, need to be challenged safely. They need to touch a hot stove, but you have to keep them away from 3rd degree burns. They need to do things that are just a baby step beyond what they can do, but if you set them up for failure, that's very bad.

Thank you so much for all of your advice, bonniebede. That definitely gives me some ideas to think about. I really like the idea of having a family choir and finding a way to include the kids with singing.

I decided to have the kids practice separately from the adults, that way we can really focus on the basics of singing sing some of them have never sang before. I'm going to teach them the Sanctus, Agnus Dei and Our Father first and then that way they will know something that's the same every week instead of teaching them new songs all the time.

My guys are leaners. At first, if I stopped singing, so did they.

That's how my women and children are. On one hand, it's nice to have them listening so closely, but at the same time it will be nice when I can sing a different part than them. All in good time, right?

I'd recommend having 3 or 4 practices between each Mass you sing. When I did a season with just one practice between Masses, my schola wasn't able to have time to learn anything new and interesting. They and I were just sticking to what they were comfortable with.

I agree--I would love to have my group sing more often, but right now we're still kind of in formation mode and I feel like we need to get the basics down before we are singing on more of a weekly basis. I've had two members who were eager to sing more often, so I am having them sing with me when I cantor a few times a month. I think it's sort of a nice way to break things up from the usual one cantor doing everything.

Thanks for your encouragement. I agree a few practises are essential - though we sing every week, we are doing pretty much the same material for a few weeks in a row, so it is continually improving as we go along.
Also we look to practise a season ahead, so for example in Advent we got a number of practises in for the Christmas material, then as we sang our Christmas material for a few weeks, we were practising ahead for Ordinary time.
A weekly Mass is a big commitment especially for a director, on the other hand it might make it easier to built a group from the regulars who will be there anyway (if there are any such).
Please say a prayer for us, as I think our Mass is about to be axed - not because it is not wanted, but Diocesan changes and mergers have left us with a much bigger parish and one less priest, so something has to give. I am sure God has a plan for the future - and I know the mid week schola with adoration is continuing. I am glad I had the experience of this year, I would be much more confident about getting up and running in the future.

Thanks, Don. I really like the Veni Jesu Amor Mi piece--I'm not familiar with it, but I think it's definitely something we'll have to try in the future. I'm actually starting to feel a little bit more optimistic and excited about things now. I always thought that a schola had to start out doing beautiful, complicated polyphonic motets in perfect pitch, but now I realize that we can do very simple things and sound good. That's what I love about chant--it's simple enough even for beginners to learn, and it doesn't matter how many people you have in your group.

but now I realize that we can do very simple things and sound good

I, too, would never have one to a part. That is hard work.

Some excellent advice!

In my most humble opinion you are trying to get them to sing too hard music too soon. I would not start
with polyphony or part singing....I would work on unison chant for awhile - an easy comunion antiphon, some simple beautiful gregorian melodies like Jesu Dulcis Memoria, Ave Maria, Parce Domine.
While working on this unison repertoire, you can work on pitch, latin pronounceiation, singing together and creatating a good tone. When you have made good strides with that, you can introduce two part part pieces,
Then three part.

Reality is not always bad. I have an older group with 3 or 4 younger people. When the latest respiratory bug hit a couple of weeks ago, I had to cancel what I had planned for Sunday mass and go to Plan B. I had two older ladies in the soprano section, two basses that had been out of town at rehearsal and were not familiar with the music, some wheezing altos and a missing tenor. Good time to play something.

At times I envy those whose parishes will pay for professional singers - mine isn't one of them. I have what I have. Sometimes they disappoint, but at other times it all comes together and is surprisingly good. The nature of the beast, I guess.

I am not a director, just a lowly accompanist who also spent time singing in the university choir and orchestral violinist 15+ years. This is what I have noticed: music directors have to literally bombard their musicians with communication to get their message across. Make sure you have a list of email addresses and phone numbers, send weekly updates and reminders, start texting people when it's 15 til and they still have not arrived for rehearsal, be a constant buzz in their ears. When I was a graduate assistant I started a Facebook page for the orchestra and kept it maintained to inform everyone of rehearsal schedules, cancellations, etc, but it was also a place where orchestra members could discuss things, share their favorite recordings of pieces we were playing, and so forth. The music director I work under is relentless with communication, and because of this she has transformed what was a small and inexperienced choir like yours to one that expands to a large 60+ voice community choir and sings with the local symphony once a year. She is not professionally trained, does not have a music degree. She started cantoring at her own church and went from there, and ninety percent of her success is just persistence.
On the other hand, I am happy things are already looking up with your group! But do consider your communication methods. Don't be afraid to be annoying- it gets results.

... I started printing a choir handbook with schedule for the upcoming year ...

What an excellent choir handbook it is. Thanks for sharing it.

All choirs like to have parties.

Musiclover, I've had some setbacks of my own with my schola. I would get excited when they were doing music well, and try to add more difficult (and beautiful) pieces. There were a few times we fell flat on our faces, and it was my fault. I think that it just comes with the job, especially when starting a fresh group. Because I struggle with consistant attendance, (I have several who never miss, but a few who have other obligations from time to time) I have been content to have the schola sing only the melody line of any piece that we are doing. Though most of what we do is chant, I've had much success doing the same thing with Rice's Simple Choral Gradual at my last assignment. It's all about small steps.

It's ok to overstep the limits of your group from time to time. It helps to get a feel for what people are capable of at the moment. We then go back to the drawing board and see how we can meet them where they're at while still prayerfully serving the Liturgy. I've nailed down my first year, and we're still doing psalm toned propers for the TLM, but we have started singing some Latin hymns from the various offices instead of adding more psalm verses. I'm also (slowly) teaching my volunteers solfege with the intent that they will become better singers because of it. It's an investment, and they are worth it.

Lastly, I do agree with a get together (for non-rehearsals) from time to time. It helps to get to know people for who they are, and to relax from time to time. I find that these get togethers help calm me down, and build comradery with my people. Not to mention, it's just plain fun!

Lastly, keep at it! It's hard work, but it is rewarding! I'm keeping a record of music that we're doing for our Masses, firstly, so I can have something to go to next year, but more importantly, to see how far we've come as a group in the future. I look forward to asking my choristers: "remember when?" I'm sure we'll all get a kick out of that! May God bless your efforts, and may you and your singers be enriched by your service to the Liturgy!

Just wanted to share an update with you all. We just had our latest practice and I was feeling discouraged beforehand, so I said a prayer while I was driving to the church that God would give me some kind of confirmation that I should continue directing this schola.

Well, starting off was slow because 2 kids were gone due to an illness, but when the adults showed up, I had three new members! I cannot even begin to tell you how excited and happy I am!! So now in my adult group I have three men (2 basses and 1 who can sing either bass or tenor) and 4 women including me (3 altos, which means I can finally sing soprano again!). I am just so happy and I think they all enjoyed practice. I am going to make a goal to have the group sing twice a month. Thank you so much, everyone, for you advice. It was so helpful.

Yes, He does! Now I just have to practice singing louder and/or pray for more sopranos, but that's the least of my worries. :)

That's true, bonniebede. I've noticed they sing a lot better (both with confidence and with good pitch) when they've heard the song before or they already know the words. If I try to teach them a new song, their pitch is all over the place. It's sort of interesting because I know that they can sing, but it just takes a little while for it to "click" for them. When the adults came for practice I had everyone sing all the hymns together, and the kids really did well. I think they feel better when they're not the only ones singing.

Thanks for the advice, Noel! We're going to be singing about three times a month starting in Lent, so it will be nice to be able to build some repertoire with learning hymns and anthems. Sometimes I like to "cheat" and find a common hymn tune (Old Hundredth, for example) so if we can learn that well, we'll automatically know about three or four "different" hymns (of course, I wouldn't be doing that so much that everyone gets tired of it!).

Am I Working to Change Music in the Church or am I Working to build a Choir that Can Change Music in the Church.

Yes. This. I need to write this down, in BIG letters and place it in my choir notebook.

I don't really want to take a summer break, but unfortunately (well, not really unfortunately at all) God has other plans because I'm having a baby in the summer. So I'm going to have to play that one by ear, but I definitely know what you mean.

Congratulations on your future chant scholar! Take good care of yourself. : )