Pope adds 10 minutes of kneeling to Vatican Christmas Mass
  • Chrism
    Posts: 868
    Pittsburgh director to conduct Christmas Eve Mass music

    The Holy Father led the congregation in kneeling throughout the Et Incarnatus, as called for by the rubrics of Christmas, even though the movement from the Mozart Mass in C lasted about 10 minutes.

    Live video (can be scrolled back):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZytUtnpxYU
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen M. Jackson Osborn
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    A TEN MINUTE PART OF A CREDO SUNG AT MASS?

    BUT WHAT WOULD POPE FRANCIS DO?
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    This pope is too concerned with the externals of liturgy.

    Why do we need to kneel for so long?

    Why at all?

    HOW DO I PURPLE BOLD
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Annuntio Vobis Gaudium Magnum!!!

    Thanked by 1M. Jackson Osborn
  • RomanticStringsRomanticStrings
    Posts: 337
    Based on the article, it looks like it was only the Et Incarnatus Est that was performed.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    Here's the Mass; if you jump to 54min, 50 sec., that's the middle of the Credo:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTCU9qgzHi0
    Thanked by 2JulieColl Chrism
  • Priestboi
    Posts: 155
    So who composes the psalms and alleluias etc. for the Vatican Masses?
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I am SHOCKED that PrayTell didn't cover this.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Don't let the kneeling fool you. {apodictic statement} IMHO I see it as an abberation to have music (especially Mozart) dictate the tempo of the liturgy. Great confusion. {/apodictic statement}
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Mozart wouldn't have been my first choice either.... something polyphonic would have fit alongside the chant better.
    Thanked by 3M. Jackson Osborn francis Casavant Organist
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    Mozart sure beats the Misa Criolla, though.
    Thanked by 7Salieri Spriggo CHGiffen chonak Ben Andrew_Malton BruceL
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    You can say that again.
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    Mozart sure beats the Misa Criolla, though.
    Thanked by 4matthewj Adam Wood Ben Andrew_Malton
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    You can say that again.
  • Spriggo
    Posts: 122
    That.
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    That again.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    that.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Please don't say Mozart sure beats the Misa Criolla, though again.
    And please don't say that again.
    And please don't say that again again.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,150
    Again. I mean: Amen.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hi2PrOCQ7E&sns=em

  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Again and again, let us say to the Lord, "Mozart sure beats the Misa Crapola for sure."
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    [apodictic statement] Mozart's Mass in C doesn't belong in the liturgy, whether it beats the crapola or not. [/apodictic statement]
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    [apodictic statement] Mozart's Mass in C doesn't belong in the liturgy, whether it beats the crapola or not. [/apodictic statement]


    Flat earther! LOL. Would you prefer Mass of Cremation?
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Rejoice in the Lord alway;
    and again I say, 'rejoice'!

    And -
    Mozart does not approach being liturgical music, having that unmistakable ecclesiatical aura and aesthetic that the likes of Monteverdi and Tallis, or, let us say, Vaughan Williams has; but it is a God-send after the calumny (whose name should never be spoken nor printed) that we heard several weeks ago in those sacred precincts.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    Get over it, folks.

    As I mentioned several weeks ago, the Misa Criolla was sung at Mass on the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe at St. Peter's Basilica on December 12, 2011, with Pope Benedict XVI presiding.

    I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the Et incarnatus est from the Mozart Mass in C was also used previously at a papal Mass at which Pope Benedict presided.
    Thanked by 1Chrism
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    GOIF -
    This has to be a rejoinder (an evil counsel?) betraying a degree of callousness not unequal to that of the store clerk who responds to one's cheery 'Merry Christmas' with that soulless mutterance, 'njoy your holiday.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Charles:

    No, I would prefer Mass I - XVIII, or something by byrd, palestrina, etc. nothing from this century that i know of.
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Francis -
    Surely you would include RVW's G-Minor mass amongst those bearing an unmistakable ecclesiastical ethos!?
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • JulieCollJulieColl
    Posts: 2,465
    If some want to take the long view of things, let's widen that lens just a little bit. Mozart's Mass in C minor was composed in 1782, and having been around for over 230 years, I'm sure that it's fair to assume it will be around for its 300th anniversary as well.

    Would anyone be willing to bet that the Misa Criolla will survive to celebrate its 100th year anniversary? Somehow, it's doubtful.

    Let's step back a little further and ask this question: will that brilliant work of Archbishop Bugnini, that work which he called "a triumph of the Catholic Church", that work which has been with us 44 years already with such dismal consequences, will that work survive to 100 years, let alone 200?

    Well, given the statistics coming out of France, where Mass attendance is now at 4.5%, and the number of traditionalist priests getting ready to equal the number of diocesan clergy in the next couple of decades, that is a reasonable question, isn't it?

    Will Archbishop Bugnini's ecumenically inspired masterpiece, that which Cardinal Ratzinger referred to as "a fabrication" and "a banal, on-the-spot product" last a hundred years? Can anyone imagine huge, grand throngs of the "People of God" coming together 56 years from now to celebrate the centenary of this "triumph"?

    I think it's a fair question, and one which is highly relevant since forty years after its inception, the very fact that a Pope is spotted kneeling for ten minutes has become a cause celebre, and a fact at which we are all marveling. Does that perhaps tell us something about Arbp. Bugnini's "triumph," his magnum opus.
    Thanked by 2tomjaw Felicity
  • cantorconvert
    Posts: 79
    I think it is exciting that the Vatican tapped Maestro Honeck to conduct the Mozart. It is wonderful to see such a talented musician and devout Catholic asked to perform for a high profile liturgy. Though music director of the Pittsburgh orchestra, he will doubtless be out of town during the upcoming summer Sacred Music Colloquium. However, it might be worthwhile to invite him to be involved in some way . . .
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