Advent I - III, Immaculate Conception 2014
  • From Saint Peter's Catholic Church
    Columbia, South Carolina

    Includes movements of BWV 140, Kyrie and Agnus Dei movements of Darke in E (Collegium Regale), Haβler Missa Secunda, Whitbourn (Palestrina's Missa Papæ Marcelli is scheduled for Advent IV); congregational music includes the Missa de Angelis, Schubert Deutsche Messe, and the Sanctus from Michael Olbash's Mass in Honor of the B.V.M, Star of the Sea, and hymn tunes HELMSLEY, RICHMOND, and CROSS OF JESUS.
  • Mark,

    What a broad repertoire you are able to present!

    I hope you won't mind a few questions.

    1) What possessed you to include Bernadette Farrell, Robert Batistini and Fr. Gelineau in the music for these weeks?

    2) Won't it be jarring to have Mass settings from so many places in the same Mass? Palestrina, Schubert, Hassler, Darke, ICEL....... That is, wouldn't it be better to sing all of the Deutsche Mass, or all of Hassler, or whatever in a single Mass, rather than mixing and matching?

    3) Is there a reason that no Latin propers managed to make it into this?

    4) Is the Immaculate Conception being observed as a Holy Day in your diocese? It isn't in many places.

    Thanked by 1Mark Husey
  • 1) What possessed you to include Bernadette Farrell, Robert Batistini and Fr. Gelineau in the music for these weeks?


    You must be very fortunate indeed Chris to be in a position where the answer to your question wouldn't be self-evident. If you read Mark's programs closely you will notice they have Gather in the pews as well as Worship. He obviously is making the best of a delicate situation and doing so quite well in my opinion.

    As to Latin propers, see the introit for the Advent 1 program.

  • What possessed you to include Bernadette Farrell, Robert Batistini and Fr. Gelineau in the music for these weeks?
    There's no good reason not to, provided that the selections are well-written and appropriate to the liturgy of the day.
  • Fair questions that have largely been answered by the "hive," but I can be direct, too. My pastor describes himself as a "radical centrist," and I would say the same for myself and the music ministry I lead. Our "high church" end spikes higher than most (and we have a vested choir), but traditionalists are bewildered/offended when we do mainstream American Catholic repertory. I can't stress enough to our own congregation (50% of whom are transplants from other parts of the USA) that South Carolina is a state where 4% [four percent] of the population considers themselves to be Roman Catholic. That's up 100% from 1987 when we were visited by Saint Pope John Paul II. This is fertile soil for tilling and cultivating converts to the faith, and a breadth of music from the totality of Christian tradition serves us well.

    I had an amazing precentrix last year who was able to credibly lead the propers from the GR but she's moved away, so we'll likely use SEP for the Saturday Mass Advent II-III (although we don't have space to print them, but they'll be chanted in English). For choral services, the Matin Responsory has been how we've begun our Advent Masses for the past nine years. This Advent, we'll also chant the Alma redemptoris Mater. For us, that's a good balance of chant and strophic hymnody.

    The choir is as capable of handling various choral ordinaries or movements therefrom each week as they are solidly in our grasp. The congregation is well acquainted with their Eucharistic acclamations as well: we have strings for BWV 140, so the Schubert will be most welcome then.

    In a perfect world, I'd have scheduled BWV 140 for Advent I- I'm simply missing too many people so we switched it to Advent II. Parish = pragmatist > purist
    Thanked by 2BruceL CHGiffen
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    I think Chris's question was posed a bit aggressively, but the Latin propers question is still valid, I think. I find they help the choral technique quite a lot. If the clergy do not like them, obviously that is another issue, but it seems that even many priests who should know better have trouble getting accustomed to Gregorian chant. It must be an ingrained cultural response: "we have to get people fired up!!!"

    Always nice to see your wonderful planning!
  • I get a lot of free reign with music planning- my pastor has exquisitely fine taste in hymnody. We also both realize the pastoral efficacy of contemporary Catholic music (and might even admit to liking some of it after a cocktail or two).

    If I place myself in the mind's eye of our typical parishioner, chanted propers (especially in Latin) and learning Alma redemptoris Mater for four weeks in a row, on top of choral movements of an ordinary, is excessive to our parochial tradition. That's another reason we're chanting the Gloria in English for Immaculate Conception (where I've been chanting the de Angelis Gloria for the past 8 years): for variety's sake.

    I would even propose an even year/odd year rotation for an English/Latin Ordinary for Holy Days for parishes like ours.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Ok, let me rephrase.


    Given that you can sing Hassler and Palestrina, why would you include Gelineau, Batistini and Farrell -- it strikes me as creating an intentional hybrid, which strikes me as a bad idea.

    Given that you can sing Hassler, Palestrina, Darke and Schubert, why not have one of these Masses on each Sunday, rather than mixing and matching. It creates even more the sense of an intentional hybrid.

    Most choirs which can sing these don't also include the self-consciously mediocre, or that which is devoted to the purely functional.

    Among answers to my question are the following: we're building a beautiful program on the rubble of an awful one; we're creating an intentional hybrid to keep everyone in our multicultural house happy; we wouldn't be caught dead using that much Latin, given that alius cantus aptus allows us not to do so...... and other answers, too.
  • I would like to suggest a couple of options - actually tried and true with my combined experience at Our Lady of Walsingham (Houston) and Stella Maris (Charleston). Though they are considered "utilitarian" by many, I grew up chanting the Psalm Tone Propers by Rev. Carlo Rossini. Melismatic Propers from the Graduale Romanum are wonderful, but take a lot of experience and practice. At the same time, EVERY Catholic should learn to be comfortable with all of the Psalm Tones. That's the first point. The second is like unto it. The most versatile form of chant is Anglican Chant. It works in any language: English (Tudor or modern), Spanish, and even Latin. Although many Episcopalian musicians would not consider performing it melody only, it can work for a solo cantor. But the beauty is letting the choir (or even the entire congregation) sing it SATB. So, take the Latin texts of the Propers and alternate Gregorian and Anglican chant. If you want an example, look at the Magnificat in both the St. Pius X and St. Gregory Hymnals. (I forget the numbers.) The even verses ARE in the form of an Anglican single chant. And as a bonus, watch Mario Lanza in "The Great Caruso" - in the opening moments as a boy singing in procession through town.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,767
    It may well be a given that the congregation expects to sing at least part of the ordinary, in which case a polyphonic Kyrie-Agnus sandwich seems like a winning compromise. Cyclic masses are certainly an important segment of the "treasure" and some of us only get to dip in at Baptism (any favorite 4-part Benedictus settings? I think we'll do Schubert in E flat), OT2 (Agnus from Palestrina's Tu es Petrus), Chrismas (Et incarnatus from Nelsonmesse) and maybe OT33C (Et vitam venturi-Schubert in Es).
  • The Gelineau tones are like Anglican chant, so I fail to see a problem here. Chris, we have different idealogies. Best of luck to you.
  • Gelineau tones are similar in their sound, but there is precious little commonality between tones. Each is totally different, and many set (like Ps. 23) for just one particular Psalm. OTOH Anglican chant is a moderately strict formula which can be used almost universally to any text, with the healthy option of SATB to keep the choir interested.