Has anyone played Durufle's Requiem organ part?
  • Hello, I am organist at a big parish. I just heard from our music director that she wants to perform Durufle's Requiem this November 2. I know it is one of the most difficult accomanying parts, and it is new to me :( And I don't have music yet. Would it be possible to start working on it now and to get ready within next a few weeks?

    Please give me some thoughts if anyone has played it before.

    Thanks!
  • It is a bear. Especially if you are not in a live room. Do you play any other organ works by durable? It is harder!

    But, it is glorious music and worth learning.

    There should be someone here willing to scan a couple of pages of the toughest sections to give you an idea.
  • Durufles Requiem is hands down one of the most beautiful musical works I've ever heard.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen gregp
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    Do you play any other organ works by durable?

    Yes, and I'm ever ready to do so.
  • I have played several Durufle's organ pieces. I am sort of a good reader, but am not sure if I can get ready for it by the time :( since I continue to hear from people that it is one of the most difficult pieces.
  • As Noel Jones says, it is a bear of an organ part to manage. Last year there emerged the possibility of my playing that part for a choral society in western Victoria, but perhaps fortunately in the circumstances, the scheme didn't come to anything.

    Not only is the part tough from a technical point of view, but any organist who is definitely going to perform it should insist on at least three full rehearsals with the whole choir. Let there be none of that "Oh we'll just concentrate on the hard bits and we'll wing it for everything else" nonsense which a certain kind of conductor, keener on popularity than on the actual music, is fond of permitting.

    Insist on those three full choral rehearsals or walk. Because Duruflé's style is - as any organist realizes - utterly unforgiving. There are certain composers for the organ who can make a good impact even through the conduit of an error-infested rendition. It just so happens that Duruflé isn't one of them.
  • I just heard from our music director that she wants to perform Durufle's Requiem this November 2.


    Wait. She's just starting to work on this now? Good luck to her and the Red Sox!
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    Tell her you want paid quadruple if you have to play the Sanctus...or you want another player for those runs. Kyrie is also very hard.

    As above posters said, the difficulty with Durufle (also what makes it beautiful) is that it all fits together in a glorious puzzle. If you don't have a piece (director, organist, choir) that fits properly, probably better to sing something else.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,184
    I have played the Durufle twice (once on two weeks notice, which was not fun). It is like a puzzle. But even more difficult than playing it is registering it. I pray you have an organ with enough colour in it to make it worthwhile. The clue is to practice, practice and more practice.

    Message me if I can be of help. I have some notes that Mdme. Durufle gave about it.
  • Thank you all for the notes! I emailed the music director last night and said what you guys told me. She said the choir has sung it a few years ago, so they can do it :( It sounds like she doesn't care about how I feel about it. She said we have almost two months left..haha....(it is already Sep. 11 today) ...And she doesn't think it is a short notice for organists since she is a singer/ conductor and has no knowledge about organ at all..It is very annoying.
  • I was once in a similar position, and I flat out refused (at the time I was the organ scholar at a program, and my organ professor just laughed out loud when I told him about the idea). With my professor's backing, I refused to play any movements - he had influence at the program. Sounds like you are not so lucky...

    For comparison, the real question is whether you have played Durufle's Veni Creator Prelude, Adagio, and Choral Variations. Much more difficult than the Suite (I've played both). If you can learn a piece at least as difficult as (but longer than) the Prelude and Adagio in the next two months, and play it while following an obviously inexperienced (or at least unwise) director and amateur choir in the mirror, then more power to you! I've also conducted the Requiem, and personally I would never perform it unless I had an organist of repute who had the piece and a couple of performances under their belt already. No offense to you - it's just extremely difficult and unforgiving, as others have said.

    Two practical suggestions, from a conductor and organist, if the director actually wants to do a nice job on the piece:

    1 - hire an organist of repute who already has the piece in their repertoire, and fly/drive them in for the week. This is what most people do when performing the work, and if they're lucky they can find someone semi-local to work with. Depends on where you are in the country. It's also going to be a difficult year for that, since All Souls' is a Sunday and Durufle organists are few and far between.

    2 - for about the same price point, hire an excellent string quartet and perform the organ and chamber orchestra version with you playing. The organ part to that is somewhat lighter in texture and easier to play, plus you have the strings so it's a bit more forgiving. Plus, just four good string players add an incredible amount to the performance experience. The quartet really has to be good - not your wedding special quartet. I'd look at the nearest university with a faculty string quartet...


  • rogue63
    Posts: 410
    Wait, matthewj jposted the link for Gabriel Faure's Requiem---a charming and mysterious piece! The much more difficult Durufle is here:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/159784280/Durufle-Requiem-score

    Good luck!

    Thanked by 1eft94530
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    Nov. 2 falls on a Sunday, on average, once every seven years. When it does, it should be the occasion to model good liturgical music that can be used at funerals in the parish.

    While singing the Mozart or Fauré or Duruflé requiem may be a great treat for a choir, none of these settings are going to be used at the typical parish funeral Mass. So resist the temptation to showcase one or other of them at a weekend Mass on Nov. 2. Do things which may go a long way in improving the music used at parish funerals. People are apt to choose poorer music for their loved ones' funerals (e.g., Be Not Afraid) simply because they never experience anything better.

    If one really wants to sing one of these settings, plan something special, such as a memorial service (not a Mass) for all parishioners who have passed away in the previous year to be held in the afternoon or evening of Nov. 2. Make it a Sunday Vesper liturgy or a liturgy of the word (with a short homily) and incorporate the choral Requiem into the liturgy.
  • kevinfkevinf
    Posts: 1,184
    Excellent advice from Jared and Fr. Krisman, though I find the Suite much more difficult (the bloody Toccata alone is a nightmare.) If you have done Durufle before, you know what you are in for. If not, look at in terms of a piece of organ music.

    Durufle is no walk in the park. I have programmed the P and F on the name of Alain for this fall's recitals.
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    I see what you're going for, Fr. Krisman, but I think you're playing to the lowest common denominator...which is fine. What's better? Play both ends.

    At the choir Mass, do something "big" like this. At the others, do what you suggest. At our place, I don't worry too much about the funeral Mass preferences of the choir Mass crowd: they are all there because of the music or ceremonial. At the others, it's more of a mixed bag.

    I do have to disagree with taking Masses out of liturgical context, though: I understand the difficulty of doing a big Kyrie and Gloria in the reformed liturgy (YMMV), but I think there's a real efficacy to using a choral ordinary in its intended context. For example:

    1) As a student, I was fortunate to experience the Frank Martin Mass in its intended environment (it was an EF Mass, I think). It was amazing how I really felt I had new insight into the Mass itself AND that piece as a result.

    2) Later, a large, well-known program which will remain nameless had the habit of doing big polyphonic Masses (even Mozart with instruments) as preludes to Mass, then having Mass of Creation or something similar as the actual Ordinary of the Mass. This struck me as a huge impoverishment of all involved. It was clear to me that the message was: this is great music, but not the music we should worship with in the 21st Century. I don't think that's a message that is consistent with the teachings of Vatican II on sacred music.

    Anyhow, not recommending everyone here starts doing the Coronation Mass every week for every Mass: just a plea that everyone try to see where they really are (and where they might need to go).
  • I think string quartet and organ is a good option. I will bring it up to my boss tonight. Thank you for sharing your idea, JaredOstermann!
  • While singing the Mozart or Fauré or Duruflé requiem may be a great treat for a choir, none of these settings are going to be used at the typical parish funeral Mass. So resist the temptation to showcase one or other of them at a weekend Mass on Nov. 2.


    This isn't meant at all to be an insult to you, Father, as I like you and agree with most of what you say here.

    But isn't this exactly the kind of thinking over the years that has gotten us into the mess that we find ourselves in today?
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    But isn't this exactly the kind of thinking over the years that has gotten us into the mess that we find ourselves in today?

    I don't think so, PGA, and BTW I usually agree with almost everything you say here.

    I'm not suggesting that the lowest bar possible be set. Rather, that the bar be raised as high as possible. But let's be realistic. Mozart or Fauré or Duruflé are not going to be sung at the typical parish funeral. Showcase really fine music on Nov. 2 that can be used at such funerals.
  • Fr. Krisman,

    I have to agree with Bruce on this one - it is not an either/or proposition. An average parish might have 4-5 masses on a weekend these days, and only the choir mass would feature the Requiem music. I reject outright the idea that every single liturgy at a parish has to be exactly the same as all the others - what an impoverishment of the liturgy! And nowhere ever mandated by church legislation. The choir mass might look different than the schola mass, might look different than the cantor mass. Great! Unity does not mean uniformity.

    Your larger point may be that a choral requiem mass is a bad model for a funeral liturgy, period. I strongly disagree with this idea as well, provided the music is matched sensitively with the liturgy (e.g. in Mozart leaving out movements that are too long or unwieldy to fit with the liturgical action). The interesting thing about requiem masses is that in them we have famous musical settings of the Proper of the Mass. So I don't see Faure on Nov. 2nd as showcasing the piece as much as "SINGING THE MASS" with the most beautiful music we have available. In our case (Faure for All Souls'), the entire Ordinary will be sung by the congregation, along with dialogues, responsorial psalm, gospel acclamation, etc. A wonderful balance of choir and congregation singing - not a "poor model for music." And for a family with resources or ties to the choir, a choral requiem might very well be a beautiful model for the funeral of a loved one.

    However, disagreement aside, I am genuinely supportive of your idea of modelling fine funeral music at the non-choral liturgies. And I would genuinely appreciate it if you would offer your suggestions for excellent music at a cantor/organist funeral. I have been stumped here sometimes, beyond going for a few "better" hymns such as I Know that My Redeemer Lives. I'm not 100% sure what to suggest for people who want the best possible but only have a cantor/keyboardist present. Maybe you could start a thread for that topic? Could be some valuable insights from the forum, too.

    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    As a student, I was fortunate to experience the Frank Martin Mass in its intended environment

    I do love the Martin Mass for double choir. But as to its intended environment? My understanding was that Martin wrote it as a very personal expression of his deep faith, but that he then put it in a drawer and never intended to share it with the world.
  • I will just add - by your logic, Father, the full parish choir will also not be present at the vast majority of funerals. Does this mean we should not have a choir at all on the weekend of Nov. 2nd? In other words, every week the choir Mass is exceptional, not typical.
  • I think it important to highlight what Fr. Krisman is saying about using All Souls as a way to improve funeral liturgies. I think this is appropriate for smaller churches that will most likely never sing any of the fine requiems. While I don't agree with his proposed solution, it is obvious that (at least, in my case) that most Catholics forget what to do at funeral Masses, let alone pay any attention to singing. One reason being that it is an extraordinary liturgy for most people involved. Perhaps highlighting the proper texts of the Mass and their very hopeful character (I have the Introit, Communion, and In Paradisum particularly in mind) would far better serve the outcome of future funeral liturgies, especially since those particular antiphons are well within the abilities of volunteer singers.
    Thanked by 1Andrew Motyka
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I may have the choir sing In Paradisum at the choir mass, perhaps cantors as well at the other masses. I don't intend to try a requiem since trying to fit those older forms to the current mass is a bit like square pegs into round holes. I will leave requiems to the EF crowd where the forms more closely fit the functions.

    Durufle and Reger cause great consternation in a person my age. Fear and trembling along with dread... ;-)
    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    This is not a realistic request at all. Our associate has played it before, and we are only doing a few movements of the Durufle in context-Introit, Kyrie, Agnus, Lux Aeterna, and In Paradise (incensing of Book of the Dead.) We aren't doing the three toughest movements and I still alerted him back in June that this was on the schedule for All Soul's. Your director is nuts!
  • redsox1
    Posts: 217
    In Paradisum-I hate auto correct!
  • I read this thread last evening and it gave me nightmares, no joke. I seriously dreamt I was in this situation, had to learn the Durufle Requiem in less than 2 months. I woke up and thought, "oh thank God...it was only a dream." I feel for you, sir. But hopefully it will be a good (and musical) experience for you. :-)
    Thanked by 1marajoy
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    I do love the Martin Mass for double choir. But as to its intended environment? My understanding was that Martin wrote it as a very personal expression of his deep faith, but that he then put it in a drawer and never intended to share it with the world.


    Hey Father, isn't this just proof that composers can be pusillanimous? Effects of original sin? God wanted that Mass sung! :)
    Thanked by 1ronkrisman
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    I don't know about God's intention (see 1 Cor 2:16), but lots of choral conductors wanted the Mass sung after its existence became known!

    Did God also want Ives' Fourth Symphony performed, or was it Leopold Stokowski?
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen BruceL
  • eft94530eft94530
    Posts: 1,577
    Some more items for your reality-check-list ...
    (1) seated at console playing from score, where is director standing?
    (2) who is your page-turner?
    (3) how many registration pistons do you have _OR_ who is your registrant?
    Thanked by 2R J Stove marajoy
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    We're doing Gregorian propers (with some English refrains from the Lumen Christi Series for the congregation) and not a polyphonic setting for the exact reason Fr. K mentions. We've seen a real increase in folks wanting propers sung at funeral Masses, but it still hasn't caught on as well as I'd like (only about 70% right now). This is an opportunity to show the beauty of these chants - as well as their newly composed English counterparts.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • matthew - are gregorian chant trained scholas present at many funerals in your parish? Is this the norm or even the case more than 50% of the time? Personally, I am only slightly more likely to have a trained schola available for a parish funeral than I am to have the parish choir and organist necessary for a simple setting like the Faure.

    I think it's great what Fr. Krisman said, and we should use this opportunity to model good funeral music. At the same time, I don't see this as a reason not to do a larger polyphonic or orchestral setting at the choir Mass. I remember conducting the Durufle for All Souls at a midwestern parish that had never done anything remotely like that. Afterwards a woman came up to me with tears in her eyes, and said that was the most beautiful mass she had attended in 40+ years at the parish. The single other most-heard comment that day was "heavenly", referring to liturgy and music. It seems very silly to me to avoid liturgies like that, simply to model a more middle-of-the road music that people are more likely to have at their funerals. I would say, take All Souls on Sunday as an opportunity to do the best you can with what you have.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    I could put together two men or two women to sing Gregorian propers at any funeral, any day of any week.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood