Haydn's Deutsche Messe in English?
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    Does anyone know of an English edition of J.M. Haydn's Deutsche Messe (a.k.a. the "Staubmesse")? The texts are hymns to be sung during the various parts of the Mass, not translations or even paraphrases of the Latin Ordinary. This work is the predecessor to (and probable inspiration for) Schubert's German Mass, of which there are several English versions. Here are a couple of recordings of the first movement:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dtf1SWvF3U - VERY robust congregational singing!!!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYGgDNQUpQQ - historically informed performance practice

    Note slightly different words for the second stanza between the two versions as well as the rhythmic variations.
    Thanked by 1Bob_Cook
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    Love (maybe I mean hate) the gathering notes at St. Pankatius!

    There seem to be 8 surviving vernacular Masses by Haydn; one of them appeared in one of the paperback hymnals recently (Not Today's Hymnal, but during Advent 2013 iirc, and under the title an Austrian Folk Mass) and I've spotted Concordia editions in English (not in current catalogue) at the Oakland Public Library in the past.

    Another composer of the genre is Silent Night Franz Gruber, who has a nice monument edition available in large libraries. A lot of others (Vogler, close indeed to Schubert!) turn up in a cpdl search.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    The edition from Carus-Verlag, 2003, is in German only.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it's never been translated: who would have used it?
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    who would have used it?

    Congregationalists.
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    Good point, chonak. I know the Schubert Mass has been set with English words - both the actual liturgical texts as well as paraphrases following the German - but the Haydn Mass probably doesn't lend itself to this as easily. Protestants would find the theology objectionable, for instance, where the text speaks about the Son of God making atonement on the altar - very Catholic! I wondered if perhaps someone had arranged it for one of the historically German-speaking parishes here in the US after English became the predominant language. I've sent an e-mail to a professor who is an expert on these kinds of things and will report back here if I find out anything interesting.
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    Also, the full Mass is available here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qUUyOag3gA

    I know I've heard the last movement performed before, but I can't remember where.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    One of the features of metric paraphrases is that they are interchangeable. Last Sunday for example we sang "In the Cross of Christ I glory" to Schubert's "Herr du hast mein flehn vernommen", a rather good fit with a little line-order swapping. The Concordia editions I already mentioned were certainly sung in those translations by some Lutherans, and the "Austrian Folk Mass" probably spotted while I was visiting a GIA church was adapted to the 2010 ICEL texts. I don't guarantee that either is the same piece as "Hier liegt", though.
    Thanked by 1madorganist
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    I dug through my own stacks of sheet music a little, looking in vain for a copy, since I used to sing at the German parish in Boston. Holy Trinity Church was founded in the 1840s and had maintained some of the customs of German Catholic music, so the parish's choir did perform the Hochamt occasionally, even up to the closure of the church a few years ago, and even when the rest of the Sunday Mass was in English.

    If I remember right, the sheet music we used did not include an English version.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Chonak, I could check with Genevieve Schmitt and see if she has a copy. Though I mightn't see her till next Tuesday.
    Thanked by 1chonak
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    Please give her my best!
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    The professor I consulted said he believes an English version is available in the 1924 St. Mary's Hymnal, but he doesn't have access to the hymnal at present. Does anyone here have a copy of this hymnal?
  • ghmus7
    Posts: 1,465
    Somebody needs to step up and make editions of these - im thinking of the Proulx edition of the Schubert German mass- so useful!
  • Bobby Bolin
    Posts: 417
    http://www.litpress.org/Products/3463/mass-8mdashan-austrian-mass.aspx?MenuId=9214

    There is this. Probably not what you are looking for, though.
    Thanked by 1ghmus7
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    Thanks to a reference in an article by Paul Weber in October's issue of The American Organist (p. 49), I was able to locate an English translation of the text, set to different tunes, in The Catholic Youth's Hymn Book (1871), no. 133 ff. The same same translation is set to the M. Haydn tune in the 1920 Catholic Hymnal, no. 234.
  • oldhymnsoldhymns
    Posts: 220
    Were you able to get a copy of St. Mary's Hymnal, which you inquired about earlier? The 1924 edition was reprinted in 1944 by the Catholic Book Publishing Company, which I have. The hymnal was compiled by Christian A. Zitell, a pupil of John Singenberger and contains a great deal of German-American hymnody--far different from other Catholic hymnals published in America during the first half of the 20th Century. In addition to a Requiem Mass, it contains "Mass of the Holy Angels" and the "Mass of the Blessed Virgin Mary."
  • RoborgelmeisterRoborgelmeister
    Posts: 139
    St. Mary's Hymnal, which is also called St. Mary's Manual, does have almost all of the movements of Michael Haydn's Singemesse. The various items are interleaved with other Low Mass hymns starting with number one. Unfortunately, I can't find any scanned versions on line. The Organ (SM Manual) only has the first verse of each item... the people's edition has the full text, and melody line.
  • madorganist
    Posts: 906
    I was not able to get a copy of the St. Mary's Hymnal. Could either of you please look and see whether the translations are the same as those in the Catholic Youth's Hymn Book, linked to above?
    On Bended Knee a Guilty Race
    Let Glory in the Highest
    Accept, Almighty Father
    Hark! Hark! the Angels Singing
    The Sacrifice Is Ended
  • RoborgelmeisterRoborgelmeister
    Posts: 139
    For the Introit Hymn, Zittel uses a version of "Prostrate before thy Majesty," which is presumably high altered from the versions that appear elsewhere. All of those first lines appear in Zittel; whether or not they are paired with M. Haydn's tunes is another question.
    Thanked by 1madorganist
  • oldhymnsoldhymns
    Posts: 220
    I compared these five hymns in St. Mary's Hymnal and the Catholic Youth's Hymnal.

    On Bended Knee, a Guilty Race is the same in both
    Let Glory in the Highest has an additional verse in St. Mary's Hymnal, as follows:

    Thou Holy Ghost, Creator, Thou gift of the Most High,
    O fount of life e'erlasting, Our weakness Thou supply.
    Thy seven gifts in mercy, Bestow on our souls,
    That our hearts be ready, When God to heaven us calls, When God to heaven us calls.

    Accept, Almighty Father is the same in both hymnals.
    Hark! Hark! the Angels Singing uses a different melody in St. Mary's for the second verse.
    The Sacrifice is Ended is the same in both hymnals.
    Thanked by 1madorganist
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