Request for informed opinion on chant short-hand: VERY TECHNICAL
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    I've been looking at a chant of Duo Seraphim, from Cantus Selecti.

    Independent of whether one likes the book...... there's one place where I think there is chant short-hand, but I'm not perfectly sure.

    On the relevant page, the chant indicates that we return to sing the text Sanctus, and after that to sing Gloria Patri, and then sing Plena est omnis terra Gloria ejus

    The Gloria Patri, if I'm remembering correctly, doesn't finish with sicut erat in principio..., but how far does one sing the Sanctus?
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    Just to the dagger. Then the rest will be taken up at the end, where it says, "† Pléna." Duo seraphim is the responsory after the eighth lesson in the third nocturn of matins for Trinity Sunday; you can check it there.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Mark,

    Thank you for your speedy, specific, helpful information.

    I'm considering having my choir sing this this Sunday. Objections?
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    None at all, it's a lovely chant. Obviously, it would have been most appropriate thematically a couple of weeks ago on Trinity Sunday, and it has no discernible connection with the orations or readings for this Sunday (EF or OF). But then again I've never been of the opinion that every Mass has to have a "theme" and that the music must all match that theme.
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    Besides, it has been the eigth responsory for Ordinary Time Sunday Matins for at least 400 years in the Roman Rite and thus was sung every Sunday per annum not impeded by a Double feast. And in the EF still the Preface of the Most Holy Trinity is sung on every green Sunday.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Mark,

    I suppose I should have mentioned that I hope to use it in the EF. Cantus Selecti indicates that it is usable for the Sundays per annum.

    Last week we sang a chant setting of Anima Christi.
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    We use the Anima Christi as our Song of Praise/Thanksgiving after Communion.
    Thanked by 1lagunaredbob
  • JonathanKKJonathanKK
    Posts: 542
    I would disagree with Mark.

    My default would be to repeat *Sanctus all the way up to the vs.
    Then after the Gloria Patri do the partial repeat from +Plena to the vs.

    Looking up the responsory in a normal Breviary isn't going to help with this question, because the Breviary uses the same sort of abbreviations. What we want is an explicit rubric, a responsory like this written out in full, or a recording by a trustable group.

    I believe where I have encountered this sort of thing before is in the Little Office with the responsory Felix namque es. In some books I have seen it written out in full for the non-confusion of lay users:

    Felix namque es, sacra Virgo Maria, et omni laude dignissima. * Quia ex te ortus est sol justitiae, + Christus Deus noster.

    V. Ora pro populo, interveni pro clero, intercede pro devoto femineo sexu; sentiant omnes tuum juvamen, quicumque celebrant tuam sanctam commemorationem.
    * Quia ex te ortus est sol justitiae, + Christus Deus noster.

    Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto.
    + Christus Deus noster.

    Which if this is the case, the reason why the repeats are written out in the Libera me is because is goes against the default. At least, that's the way it's always seemed to me.

    Anyhow, it is definitely correct about the Gloria Patri - just look at the section in a book like the Liber Responsorialis which gives the Gloria Patri in its 8 tones for use with responsories.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen lagunaredbob
  • tomjaw
    Posts: 2,704
    My default would be to repeat *Sanctus all the way up to the vs.
    Then after the Gloria Patri do the partial repeat from +Plena to the vs.


    We would also do it this way, I think the double bar lines are the clue when to stop. The Gloria Patri is usually shortened in these sort of chants, so that would end at ... Sancto.

    In EF land this is fine to do on almost any day. We sing the appointed Propers for the day, and if time we can sing extra pieces (In Latin).

    Options include, not in preference.
    1. Offertory / Communion verses
    2. Chants from Cantus selecti
    3. Office Hymns from Antiphonal / Liber Usualis or other liturgical book.

    We usually sing Office Hymns or former Sequences, either of the Season, and/or of the Feast day.

    The other chant choir I work with is singing Hymns in honour of the Precious Blood in July,
    http://societyofstbede.wordpress.com/2012/07/11/july-month-of-the-most-precious-blood/
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
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