Two Eucharistic Motets: Gustate et videte, Manducaverunt (SATB)
  • SalieriSalieri
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    Thanked by 2JulieColl CHGiffen
  • mrcoppermrcopper
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    Gustate looks good. I wonder about the alto B tied in bar 21, why bother? Stay on E.

    Haven't looked at Mandu.. yet
  • JulieCollJulieColl
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    These look superb. My printer needs a new cartridge or I'd have pounded them out on the piano already, but I can still see that these are lovely harmonies and phrases. (Lots of suspensions in the alto line, too, which always makes me very happy.)
  • SalieriSalieri
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    alto B tied in bar 21, why bother?


    I prefer the sound of [I-III-VI-iv] over [I-i-III-VI-iv]. I originally had the alto stay on E with the tie, then changed the alto to a B to avoid the [I-i-III] 'progression' - the false relation between G# and G is better (to my ear) going from I to III. The tie is there because I felt that the alto line ended too abruptly at that cadence with just the half-note and needed a longer note value to come to repose. I tend to think more linearly in music rather than vertically - though, of course the two are not mutually exclusive - and try to make each line as satisfying to sing as possible.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    @Salieri: I never imagined you to be SOOOOOOOO young! So many more years to compose.

    A question for the Latin scholars, as I'm not sure about the Latin "subtitles" on your scores. Shouldn't they both read motectum cum quattuor vocibus? Quattuor is an indeclinable adjective. And a prepositional phrase with cum seems to me to be what is called for, instead of putting "four voices" in the genitive.
  • SalieriSalieri
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    Yes, and imagine how curmudgeonly I'll be when I'm 50? -- Hey! Get that ball outta my yard! (Dang Kids!)
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • JulieCollJulieColl
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    Vocibus is in the ablative plural (third declension). Cum as a preposition takes the ablative.
  • JulieCollJulieColl
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    P.S. I think sometimes you see it written (as with Kevin Allen): Motecta Trium Vocum in which case the trium vocum is in genitive plural. Maybe that's what you were thinking of, Father.
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    Yes, I did have the Allen title in mind as well, and from the first time I saw that title I questioned whether it is correct Latin.
  • SalieriSalieri
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    Thanked by 1JulieColl
  • JulieCollJulieColl
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    These are stunning, Salieri. Such sensitivity and movement. Thank you so much for sharing these. I think you're going to give Palestrina and Victoria a run for their money, esp. since you've got many years before you, God willing!

    By the way, I don't know what the correct usage is for the title. I've seen three different ways to do it online. Maybe they're all correct?

    Motectum cum quattuor vocibus (with four voices, the ablative case)

    Motectum quattuor vocibus (for four voices, the dative case)

    Motectum quattuor vocum (of four voices, the genitive case)

    Also, quattuor may be spelled with two t's or one.
  • Protasius
    Posts: 468
    Those sound great, but I just checked my bible: that should be desiderium in bars 17 et seq. instead of desiderum.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Salieri
  • mrcoppermrcopper
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    Latin, a few(!) years out of date, can be tricky. I've run into many variant spellings, for instance "Ave Regina Caelorum". At first I panicked because I used "Coelorum", with a soft C, then realized both are used ... I've also heard recordings of music where the composer spelled "Caelorum" and singers use "Chelorum".
  • SalieriSalieri
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    Thanked by 2CHGiffen JulieColl
  • mrcoppermrcopper
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    two very minor things: the bar numbers are too low and hard to read, they clash with the brackets; and where a single syllable or ending syllable has multiple notes, often one uses an underbar syllable extender. I still don't like the tieing together of "..-nus" to "beatus" (which nicely comes at the golden ratio point) but I guess you feel it is right.

    As to the syllable extender, here is Gardner Read: "
    When a word or syllable is to be so extended, a straight, unbroken line called an extender is drawn from the end of the one word (or syllable) to a position under the last note on which is is sung."
    And later, "The hyphen "... [between syllables] ... " and the extender must be clearly differentiated in level: the hyphen centered, the extender drawn on a level with the bottom of the word it follows.
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    The bar numbers in this program (MuseScore) drive me nuts. Where they are is the default position, and I have yet to figure out how to get them to where I want them, so I've just given up. Sometimes I just omit the bar numbers all together. The extender lines in the program also have an odd habit of doing what they want to do, regardless of what I want them to do, so I try to avoid them, too. It might not be the program, it's more than likely the person using it -- despite my age, I'm not a techno-person, I'm much happier with velum and a quill.
  • SalieriSalieri
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