Spanish Veni Creator ?
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,767
    I'm still a bit puffed up since yesterday's confirmation Mass, at which the Bishop was kind enough to say he coveted our choir. We chanted Veni Creator in Latin at the confirmation but would have had time for a trilingual version if we'd been ready; as it was the MC gave the air-keyboard cue and another forum member filled in very nicely with Tournemire.

    Is there a Spanish version to fit the chant? I took a peek at Traducción métrica castellana de los himnos... which is indeed in a meter:

    Ven Santo_Espiritu, Criador del mundo,

    E visita las almas de tus siervos,

    but not exactly the one I hoped for.
    Thanked by 2eft94530 MariaRist
  • Chris Garton-Zavesky
    Posts: 6,902
    Richard,

    Please take this question as quite serious:

    Given how close Spanish is to Latin; and given that liturgical chants shouldn't be needlessly repeated; and given that the Latin could serve to unite both non-Spanish and Spanish congregants, why not just use the Latin?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    I'm not the same Richard, so I can't answer on his behalf, but I get the impression that resistance to Latin is greater among Spanish-speaking Catholics than among English-speakers.
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,767
    Needless repetition, Chris? It's not a question of replacing the Latin, but of drawing people in, as in for example repeating the communion antiphon text in English when there's no such 'need', strictly speaking, other than filling silence. Our hymnal has a silly "Mode VIII" setting of "O Holy Spirit by whose breath" on the facing page to Veni Creator, so we occasionally alternate English/Latin when there's rehearsal time to lavish on reading words and melody separately. When you and I can do without English hymnody altogether maybe I'll feel on firmer ground, but meanwhile and when the confirmands have relatives attending who do not understand English, why wouldn't we offer them a a few verses too?
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    While I was working at an opera house in Germany, there was a performance of Aida with a guest appearance of a Metropolitan Opera tenor. The performance had a special moment for me as over there, almost all performances are in German, especially in the small-town opera houses, like Bremen.

    This tenor did not sing Aida in German, so the cast performed in Italian. But during the opera I began to understand what was begin sung at times, which was very surprising to me since I did not speak understand or speak Italian at that time.

    I eventually realized that the chorus, which had a union, was singing in German.

    I am sure that when Spanish speaking Catholics attend a Mass in the USA which is in English, hearing even just a bit in Spanish can be a thrill for them, just as when many of hear an anthem in Latin at a NO Mass.

    Teaching both Hispanic and English Catholics to cherish singing the Agnus Dei, special words with special music - and knowing that what they are singing can remain the same over their lifetime and will not be changed, as the Mass translations have been, brings the church together.

    West Side Story is the story of Romeo and Juliet. It is not Romeo and Juliet and will never replace Romeo and Juliet, even though almost no one (except for possibly a few eccentric members of this group) speaks using Elizabethan English, which is as really almost as difficult to understand as Latin for the average English-speaking person.

    The Novus Ordo Mass is like West Side Story. It will not replace the Latin Mass but can be used to lead people to the Latin Mass.
    Thanked by 2Richard Mix MariaRist
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    The Novus Ordo Mass is like West Side Story. It will not replace the Latin Mass but can be used to lead people to the Latin Mass.


    The point of both the Ordinary and Extraordinary Forms of the Roman Rite is to lead people to the Father, through Jesus Christ, in the power of the Holy Spirit.

    The Latin Mass is not the GOAL.
    The goal is the glory of God and the sanctification of God's people.
    Thanked by 2BruceL Gavin
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    The GOAL is a worship experience that attempts to transcend the boundaries of the mundane world.
    Thanked by 1donr
  • ronkrisman
    Posts: 1,388
    Richard Mix, I searched for a (long meter) Spanish translation of the Veni Creator Spiritus for several years, but I found none.
    Thanked by 2Richard Mix CHGiffen
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Richard Mix, I searched for a (long meter) Spanish translation of the Veni Creator Spiritus for several years, but I found none.

    I was hoping this sentence would be followed by, "So here's the one I wrote."
    Thanked by 3Richard Mix CHGiffen Gavin
  • MarkThompson
    Posts: 768
    Given how close Spanish is to Latin . . . why not just use the Latin?


    For what it's worth, my experience with Spanish speakers is that they generally don't understand a single word of Latin. Sure, you can point out some cognate words and the like, but there is nothing approaching mutual intelligibility.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,767
    As a thought experiment, imagine being an immigrant invited to a Spanish church with a choir that's expert in heiratic English and being expected to participate in something like this, considerably closer to us in time than the other dead language.

    I've heard the same anecdotal stories as Chonak but would't venture to say how much is the strong attachment to the mother tongue that one might expect in communities surrounded by a dominant culture, or how much, given how hard we know it already is to sell Latin to Anglos, is the added resistance to being told to do something by an outsider.

    Thanks anyway, Fr. Krisman; here's hoping the tread will be bumped someday by good news!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    As a sort of side issue, I tire of those who feel that the Hispanics are an uneducated, second-class lot...ignoring the huge number of physicians, nurses, business executives who also attend Mass who just happen to be....Hispanic.

    Mark's right, just as few Americans who speak English make any connection between Latin words that are the foundation of many English words.

    It's more a lack of imagination rather than education.

    But the important thing about Latin is that it is not Spanish or English, but a language now only used in prayer, set aside for a special purpose.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen MariaRist
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