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  • PurpleSquirrelPurpleSquirrel
    Posts: 165
    I am having trouble finding any other forums related to RC music. There are ones out there for specific parishes, but none that encourage discussion and input from, well, all over the place. Like this one. Any ideas?
  • Jani
    Posts: 441
    Whyever would you want to go anywhere else? ;-)

    Thanked by 5CHGiffen Ben PurpleSquirrel francis tomjaw
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    If you do go out into the wilds, pray tell, wear red shoes and click heels to return here to safety.
    Thanked by 4Jani PurpleSquirrel francis kenstb
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,295
    pray tell


    #iseewhatyoudidthere
    Thanked by 3Ben BruceL marajoy
  • PurpleSquirrelPurpleSquirrel
    Posts: 165
    Ha! You guys are awesome!
    You have no idea how often I have learned from your insights. And will continue to learn...
    However, most of the music discussed on here is pretty high brow and, admittedly, a little tough to follow.
    Our Church is small, and remote. And five hours from the nearest Cathedral/Basilica.
    My entire "formal" musical education consists of grade VIII Royal Conservatory of Music in piano, grade III Harmony, and a one-season stint with the Girls' Columbian Choir I-will-not-say-how-many-years-ago.
    I feel the need to speak with others in, er, similar circumstances. Those with no funding, no pastoral music education, no orchestra, no choir, no cantors, and now.... no organ. (Our beloved Allen has been donated for >sob< scrap pieces.)
    Ever have one of those days when you feel like you're just a little church mouse? Or Charlie Brown?
    OK, yes, I am feeling sorry for myself. Sorry.
    I'm also Canadian. So I tend to apologize a lot. Sorry.

    Rats.
    Thanked by 3Ally canadash expeditus1
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Eh?

    (trying to speak Canadian to make you feel at home. Discovered my iPhone has a choice of UK English, US English and CANADIAN ENGLISH...weird!)

    The vast majority of list members are just like you. I know, hard to believe.

    But we all put up a good front. I have not played or conducted in a church for what must be five years and miss it, but have to admit I have sworn off working in Catholic churches at least 3 times in the past.

    Musically you have more training than many list members and emotionally - you are about where almost all of us are - standing back watching kids playing with matches.

    There really should be a subset group where no one uses latin names of church documents to seal arguments and the only music discussed is in two, three and at christmas and easter when the college students come home to roost, four parts.
    Thanked by 2francis kenstb
  • irishtenoririshtenor
    Posts: 1,295
    Noel's right, PS. Many of us are toiling in similar situations, or at least have experience in similar situations. What sort of information are you looking for? If you'd feel more comfortable talking via private messages, that would be fine, too. I bet the discussion would be good for everyone, though :)

    God bless you and your work!
    Thanked by 1francis
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    However, most of the music discussed on here is pretty high brow and, admittedly, a little tough to follow.


    PurpleSquirrel

    We do not do "highbrow" here. We do what is expected of Mother Church. It is the rest of the RC Church that has "dumbeddown" the Church's expectations and has gone astray like sheep that causes the confusion. We are trying with all our might and energy to remain faithful to the beautiful and true. That is all.

    Our Church is small, and remote. And five hours from the nearest Cathedral/Basilica.
    My entire "formal" musical education consists of grade VIII Royal Conservatory of Music in piano, grade III Harmony, and a one-season stint with the Girls' Columbian Choir I-will-not-say-how-many-years-ago.


    You have far more learning than is needed to discover, learn and execute the simple chants of the Mass. You are perfectly qualified to do what needs to be done. Congratulations for discovering the proper attitude toward the RC liturgy.

    I feel the need to speak with others in, er, similar circumstances. Those with no funding, no pastoral music education, no orchestra, no choir, no cantors, and now.... no organ. (Our beloved Allen has been donated for >sob< scrap pieces.)


    Start an a cappella schola/choir and sing to your hearts content! It's really all that is needed. CPDL and the PD Liber will last you your entire life.

    Ever have one of those days when you feel like you're just a little church mouse? Or Charlie Brown?
    OK, yes, I am feeling sorry for myself. Sorry.
    I'm also Canadian. So I tend to apologize a lot. Sorry.


    We have them all the time. Don't let the status quo throw you off balance. The majority of RC churches are out of sync with authentic sacred music. Humbly stand your ground, do all that is asked of you (within the bounds of your conscience), listen twice as much as you speak, and provide music fitting and proper to the liturgy. You are among friends!

    God Bless You!

    Thanked by 1kenstb
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Those who have eyes and ears/hearts and souls to discern, will find wisdom also at-

    CCW Blog
    Chant Cafe
    NLM (okay, those three are obligatory.)
    Pray Tell (if you have an elevated heart.)
    Gentle Reign (just 'cause he's Rory don't mean he got nuthin')
    Catholic Sensibility (just 'cause he's Todd don't mean he got nuttin', honey)
    Rorate Caeli ( a must read, to balance bias and cause there's truth there.)

    Do not bother with Catholic Answers "Liturgy.' Poor RPInet used to be major, now it's mummified. NPM doubtless has a forum, like I give a rip.
    Related sites of value: Catholic Herald (UK), Real Clear Religion; Patheos (but you have to decide who's worth following.)
    Bad Catholic by John Zmirak (not the young genius at Patheos) is a hoot.
    Southern Orders (Fr. Allen McDonald)
    Ship of Fools

    And should I ever really decide to speak my mind....
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    Oh, Purple, absolutely do post about needs like yours!

    Many of us are in parishes where the choirs need two-part and three-part pieces because (a) the choir is small or (b) the choir is lacking in certain voice types or (c) the two-part pieces take less rehearsal time than four-part pieces or (d) the choir can perform them more securely.

    Alas, the downside of many wonderful 2- and 3-part pieces for your situation is that they're arranged with organ!

    As for other forums: there are quite a few other sites where people write about liturgy, but most of them are blogs. Some are worth reading.
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • Jani
    Posts: 441
    PurpleSquirrel, you will learn so much just by reading, and you will soon discover, as I have many, many times already, that no question is too simplistic or dumb for the lovely people here that will go out of their way to answer you.

    Sometimes you will walk away feeling like a doofus, but that eventually goes away, too. And you will probably be surprised at what you might accomplish in the very short time, even with very limited resources.
    Thanked by 1melofluent
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Jani,
    I grew up with doofus, prepped with doofus, went into public service with doofus.
    You're no "doofus." Happy Easter.
    Love ya and all our CMAA buds.
  • Jani
    Posts: 441
    That's the nicest thing anyone said to me all day, Charles :) Right back atcha.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Don't worry so much about those Latin documents some love to quote. Most of them have been replaced by more current documents and they are no longer binding on anyone. Some do love to live in the past when things were like we all may wish they still were - but they are not.

    The Allen? Any chance of doing some fundraising for a used instrument? Anyone in the parish who could donate a few dollars?

    Simple music is not necessarily bad music. My choir regularly fails at singing some of the works I wish they could sing. I choose arrangements to downplay their weaknesses and show off their strengths.

    Thanked by 1Jani
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,499
    Email me anytime OK? I'm Canadian, know what the Royal Conservatory is, grew up in a northern town and I know how to use "eh". I don't know of any other forums.
    Thanked by 2Jeffrey Quick Ally
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    A CANADIAN! NO!
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    I'm Canadian also.

    Come to the Colloquium - there's always a few Canadians there.
    Thanked by 1Ally
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Oh yah, and Rob Ford studied you before coming to the Show!
  • aria
    Posts: 85
    From what I can tell, there really isn't another forum that comes close to this... yes, sometimes (ok- A LOT of times) the discussion is way over my head but most of us are just regular folks... I don't have a music degree, a theology degree, or a liturgy degree... but I love the liturgy and I love sacred music and I have a very strong desire to learn more and to bring it into my parish. So, I come here and I read a lot, and I even post a little. People here are great about answering questions (even basic ones) and while sometimes people's answers go much deeper than I wanted or needed and I don't totally get it all, I always walk away having learned something and having gotten my question answered. Please, stick around, and let us know how we can support you. We're all just here to support each other!

    PS: The best basic thing I've done so far is take an online chant class from Arlene Oost-Zinner: https://oostzinner.eprof.com/ . With that, and the basics that a more accomplished musician figured out from a few books (sorry, not sure which ones), a little trio of us formed a schola and brought the propers and actual responsorial pslams (not those paraphrased ones from the 80's) into our parish... we started with Simple English Propers and the Parish Book of Pslams. (And we're excitedly awaiting the Lumen Christi Simple Gradual). If you're looking to start even simpler, check out the Lalement Propers and CommunionAntiphons.org.
    Thanked by 2Jani CHGiffen
  • PurpleSquirrelPurpleSquirrel
    Posts: 165
    Chalk full of ideas, as per usuale, thanks everybody.
    On-line chant class... Very cool.
    The Allen has been replaced with a used rumpus-room family organ from the late 60's that smells like cigarettes, but hey... It has rhumba and samba settings. Let's party.
    I'll bring the Molsen's...
  • Ally
    Posts: 227
    Ben, careful, there are many of us Canadians on here :)

    Purple Squirrel, I've found there are many helpful people on this forum to answer all sorts of questions. There are also many people who are in "average" parishes, or less-than-ideal situations for sacred music, and people with a variety of backgrounds. So ask away here!!
    Thanked by 2Ben canadash
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Melo gave a good list of some blogs. I also like Fr. Z.


    And my top blog for the foundations of liturgy and spirituality (connected as intended) is Vultus Christi.

    I am of a different mind than Charles about old magisterial documents, especially those pertaining to our field. Many parts are quite relevant, and all are useful in understanding where we came from, and our place in church history.

    We have to live with and deal with the good things and major ecclesial identity crisis of our times. Since the sacred liturgy wasn't reborn in the 1960's or the 1840's or any other time, it helps to know the mind of the Church to try and piece together obvious questions like:
    1) How on earth did we get to this place in sacred music?
    2) What were the customs that came before us, and still exist in parts today?
    3) How did the Church weigh in on such customs and practices?

    Knowing these things helps us from being insular, and opens us to adopting a more universal outlook.


    Oh, and I think the online course sounds like a great idea, too.

    Thanked by 2francis kenstb
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    "Melon"?
    In a way, that does sort of explain me, though.
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • MaryAnn Carr WilsonMaryAnn Carr Wilson
    Posts: 1,738
    Haha! Fixed- sorry 'bout that!
    Auto correct! How I resent having a phone that constantly outsmarts me.
    Thanked by 1PurpleSquirrel
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Thou shalt have no other forums before me... There, it really could have been written in stone.

    Those old documents make interesting reading, but are not the current law for the OF. I don't try to apply them to a context they were not intended for. It is quite enough to keep up with current legislation and documents and try to faithfully follow them.
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