Chant notation rivalries
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    This pointless discussion was created from comments split from: Behind Bars.
  • Earl_GreyEarl_Grey
    Posts: 891
    I see the Medieval Finale plug-in is also on sale. Does anyone have any experience with this? Is it worth it? Or should I just learn how to do Gregorio?
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    I've never heard anything truly glowing about the Medieval plug-in for Finale, but I've never purchased it or had occasion to use it. I have heard of various issues and problems for users of it. Gregorio and GABC are the best way to go, in my opinion.

    And I just ordered Gould's Behind Bars (from npc Imaging, best price I could find now ).
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Gregorio is the way to go.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    ...or my InDesign Drag and Drop is very fast and totally artistic.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Gregorio is much faster though...
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Ben... I will race you!
  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 653
    I will race anyone with my Score program. Start your engines.

    And the old Gardner Read book on notation has had the answer to every question I've ever had on how to engrave.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    image

    It took me 1:22 to leave the forum, generate this score, and upload it to the forum. How quickly can you generate a similar one with your respective score engravers, gents?
    gregorio534ccd5c91e8a3.98259584.pdf
    12K
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Where are these clever attempts and art found, and how are they coaxed onto the screen? Some are better than others.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    There's a set of stock phrases with accompanying stupid face cartoons. They are collectively known as "Rage Comics," and they are a legitimate folk art originating anonymously within the stupid part of the internet.
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 494
    Ben, I have also found gregorio to be good for quick and dirty transcriptions. But notice in your fragment that the puncta are not aligned with the vowels in the text underlay. Alignment of the first note of a neume with the vowel in a syllable is one of the "rubrics" for chant notation in the style of the Vatican Edition.
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Authur,

    When using Latin, that rule is followed, and Gregorio handles it perfectly. I, and many others, choose to consciously ignore it for English chant, and rather, center the syllables over the middle of each syllable. I could have flipped the switch and done vowel allignment if I wanted.

    In other words, that's not a Gregorio issue, it's a user choice (or error) issue.
  • ClemensRomanusClemensRomanus
    Posts: 1,023
    I do the same, Ben.
  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 653
    Race: it took me about a minute to put the pdf on a usb drive, carry it down stairs to my no-internet music computers, load it up on one to view it. Then it took about 15 seconds to enter the notes, about 10 seconds to enter the words. Fiddling with the capital W took another 30 seconds. So, I'd say 55 seconds to get in in Score. Then another short while to put into a pdf, which I don't count as part of the task. I corrected your spelling and put in standard word hyphens as a bonus.

    Wm

    Edit: I very seldom try to write with early music note heads. But after I reminded myself how to do it it took 5 seconds to change the notes into breves. But I don't know what your pacman shapes are supposed to be? Is that a gregorio default?
    whom.pdf
    33K
  • Aristotle EsguerraAristotle Esguerra
    Posts: 1,185
    Could we rename this thread to "Pessing Contest"?
    Thanked by 6BruceL melofluent G chonak Jeffrey Quick mrcopper
  • BruceL
    Posts: 1,072
    Aris for the win!
  • amindthatsuits
    Posts: 857
    Hey, Ben, which Gardner Read book? I see a few candidates in Wikipedia.

    Kenneth
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    I thought there were more challengers to this race.
    I was looking forward to a real old fashioned shoot out at the OK corral.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    i am still in. I am making a video of mine! And yes, A... this is definitely a pessing!
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    chonak 3:02AM Thanks
    Posts: 4,332
    This pointless discussion was created from comments split from: Behind Bars.


    chonak... there is only one point to NASCAR... and if reincarnation was part of the Catholic Faith, I would definitely be back as a driver.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Ben:

    It took me 1:22 just to leave the forum.
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    An' it took me 37 seconds to pour and down a tumbler of bordeaux.

    Boys, boys, boys.... you're ALL pretty.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
    Thanked by 1CharlesW
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Now, G... no judging until all the contestants have gone down the walkway!
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Ger, you downed Bordeaux in a tumbler?
    I don't care how long it took, that's my gal!
  • Arthur Connick
    Posts: 494
    Ben, thanks for the clarification. Do you have a link to the switches and other engraving commands that are available for gregorio?
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    The center for information on Gregorio is at http://gregoriochant.org/

    A one-page summary of GABC notation is on the net at
    http://home.gna.org/gregorio/gabc/summary-gabc.pdf
    Thanked by 1matthewj
  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 653
    The Gardner Read book is "Music Notation A Manual of Modern Practice". I'd point out, good as it is, that is has nothing about notating chant.

    I looked up the Pacman image: it's not pacman him/herself I was referencing, re the gregorio noteheads, but Blinky, Pinky, Inky, and Clyde. Really, what's the source and rationale for that shape?
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    You mean slightly rounded on the top and bottom of each note?

    That's sort of standard for four-line square note these days. It mimics the slight curve that used to result from notating the music by hand using a particular type of pen nub. (Similar to the waryving line thicknesses and serif styles in some fonts mimic the movement of pen on paper, or the way the shape of round modern notes was influenced by the way engravers hammered the notes into metal plates).
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Pretty much all the modern books for the last 100+ years (at least)
    from 1905
    image

    from 1909
    image

    from 1953
    image
    Thanked by 1mrcopper
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 468
    An' it took me 37 seconds to pour and down a tumbler of bordeaux.

    You could probably cut that in half if you just drank straight from the bottle.
    Thanked by 6Adam Wood Ben CharlesW CHGiffen Spriggo tomjaw
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    Yeah, but I have small hands, and drinking from the box isn't so easy ;oP

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
    Thanked by 6CharlesW Ben barreltone CHGiffen Salieri tomjaw
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    image
    Thanked by 1Salieri
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    1:40
    race.pdf
    6K
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,160
    I thought this was a challenge about producing scores in neumatic notation.


    Oh, by the way, for some reason the Lectionary spells it "Nazorean".
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Yup, it was. Anyone can create modern notation stuff quickly.
  • ryandryand
    Posts: 1,640
    I just wanted to try it after mrcopper's post
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    Nazarene, Nazorean, Nazaraean ... all refer to someone from Nazareth.
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    Oh, by the way, for some reason the Lectionary spells it "Nazorean".
    I was wondering about that, my spell-check went crazy while I was trying to make a Passion Play for 4th graders by cutting and pasting various sources.
    I guess I'd just never noticed it before, as I'd never been tapped as a lay reader for Palm Sunday or Good Friday.
    This year Simon was from Syria, which is better than Korea, I suppose.

    (Save the Liturgy, save the World)
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Update:

    I can't find my mouse which is critical for doing my movie. So I may just try doing it using the trackpad, which is twice as slow.
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Exactly twice as slow, or approximately?
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    Exactly twice as slow


    Yes, and in a mirror canon at the fifth.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • noel jones, aagonoel jones, aago
    Posts: 6,605
    Mice are frightened by appearing in mirrors, so this would be a rollicking canon.
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    Exactly twice as slow

    Yes, and in a mirror canon at the fifth.

    Oh Rats!! I knew there was something wrong with the canon in my Ave verum corpus (at cujus latum peforatum, unda fluxit sanguine) – it is by augmentation at the suboctave, but neither mirror (inversion) nor retrograde. And I suppose it doesn't help that, a little later on, O Iesu dulcis is perfectly mirrored by O Iesu pie, either. Boo on me.

    On the other hand, in Non vos relinquam orphanos (I will not leave you comfortless), the 2-part (upper voices) first section is perfectly mirrored(lower voices) in the second section beginning at Vado, et venio ad vos, and finally these are combined as a double 2-part canon (four parts total) by inversion at the words Et gaudebit cor nostrum.



  • mrcoppermrcopper
    Posts: 653
    I'm sorry, Chuck, your post is off topic. Didn't you read the first post:
    pointless discussion
    only.
    Thanked by 2chonak CHGiffen
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    There is nothing pointless about us! We are experts at pointing out Eeeeeevvvvvvveeeeerrrrrryyyyyytttttthhhiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnggggg! So play... nice!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2AWyT7lPpc
  • stbenedict
    Posts: 4
    Nazorean
    Because that is the way it appears in the text of Matthew's gospel. Incidentally, the phrase (prophecy) appears nowhere in the OT canonical (i.e. including the deutero-canonical) books. cp.Raymond Brown, The Birth of the Messiah.
    stbenedict
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