Good Friday Shuffle
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,156
    This year my parish is continuing the tasteless and illicit practice of reversing the order of Communion and Adoration on Good Friday, so that the service ends with Adoration and the people are as it were made free to leave when they want to, after adoring the Cross.

    Sigh.

    Anyone else have to put up with this curiosity?
  • Jani
    Posts: 441
    Our GF service was cancelled. Will only have Stations in Spanish, led by a lay-woman.
  • dhalkjdhalkj
    Posts: 61
    I see the Peace as a dismissal rite and communion was something the early Christians took with them when they left because they broke their fast every morning through the following week by receiving communion in conjunction with their daily recitation of the Lord's Prayer. I think Catholics who stream out of church at communion time are following an early and authentic tradition. And receiving communion at 3:00pm was the mark of a fast day. As the Orthodox Mass of the Pre-Sanctified attests.

    But anyway at my church unlike yours we are tasteful and licit.

    Anybody try to combine the two processions? There's a thought for the next liturgy committee meeting. Then we'd have time for half a dozen liturgies at more convenient times.

  • dhalkjdhalkj
    Posts: 61
    Our GF service was cancelled. Will only have Stations in Spanish, led by a lay-woman.


    Since the Good Friday liturgy is a communion service only I would think it could be led by a lay person.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    We will have silent adoration before the Good Friday service begins followed by the Liturgy of the Word. Adoration of the Cross takes some time, because we have one large cross with a relic of the true cross in its center. Only that cross is used for adoration. This is followed by communion, the prayer after communion, and prayer over the people. All depart in silence.
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,943
    Paschalis Sollemnitatis:

    69. The cross is to be presented to each of the faithful individually for their adoration since the personal adoration of the cross is a most important feature in this celebration; only when necessitated by the large numbers of faithful present should the rite of veneration be made simultaneously by all present. [Note: most people are unaware that this is a licit option when the church is mobbed, as it were; with individual veneration occurring after the liturgy per no. 71]

    71. After the celebration, the altar is stripped; the cross remains however, with four candles. An appropriate place (for example, the chapel of repose used for reservation of the Eucharist on Maundy Thursday) can be prepared within the church, and there the Lord's cross is placed so that the faithful may venerate and kiss it, and spend some time in meditation.
    Thanked by 3CHGiffen Andrew Motyka BruceL
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    I wasn't aware that the arrangement of veneration-communion was something that could licitly be tinkered with by anyone, priest, or other. What does the GIRM say about this (I'm too lazy to look it up just now).

    It seems that some priests feel licensed to make alterations in the litugy that are not licit and expect their folk to obey THEM, which makes their folk accessories to the savaging of the liturgy. At the same time they expect that their own people in litugical capacities will follow the letter of the law and rubrics. My! How the disobedient do love to be obeyed! (And have you noticed that they always invoke that loophole called 'pastoral considerations'? It's really handy, isn't it, when one wants to skirt around an issue just because one feels like it, or because it makes some of the favoriti happy.
    Thanked by 1hilluminar
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,157
    What does the GIRM say about this

    The document Liam quotes is the 1988 Circular Letter on the Preparation and Celebration of the Easter Feasts; it provides details on what is stated in the Missal.

    If the congregation is particularly large, it is explicitly permitted for them to offer veneration all together at the usual time in the service, with an arrangement for individual veneration afterward.
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,499
    The document Liam quotes is the 1988 Circular Letter on the Preparation and Celebration of the Easter Feasts; it provides details on what is stated in the Missal.

    If the congregation is particularly large, it is explicitly permitted for them to offer veneration all together at the usual time in the service, with an arrangement for individual veneration afterward.


    This is what we do. Those on the altar venerate during the service. Everyone else venerates afterward. Veneration by the rest of the congregation takes about an hour at our parish.
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    At the parish I was at last year Veneration took 1 hour and 15 minutes, if I remember correctly. It might have been better to do what is described above.

    This year, due to the time-constraints of a televised service, we will have a select group venerate the cross during the service, follow the instructions from the ceremonial about the Bishop raising the cross for all to adore at once, and then offer more time for veneration after the service.
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,156
    I hope they do at my parish what is allowed as described above. However, I expect what will happen is just reversing the order of parts II and III of the service as given in the Missal, with an announcement that people are free to leave after venerating the Cross.
    Thanked by 1Liam
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,943
    Their licit solution is to have a simultaneous veneration by all at its appropriate time during the liturgy, and individual veneration after the close of the liturgy. They may not realize they can do that.
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    My old diocese was very heavy-handed about trying to get all their parishes to use a bare cross rather than a crucifix, but didn't seem to care that most parishes in the area used multiple crosses, with several "stations" for individual veneration in processions. just as they had for communion.
    They also had a cross arrayed for private veneration after the service for several hours.
    Not sure what goes on where I live now, I guess I will find out come Friday.

    It seems that some priests feel licensed to make alterations in the litugy that are not licit and expect their folk to obey THEM, which makes their folk accessories to the savaging of the liturgy. At the same time they expect that their own people in litugical capacities will follow the letter of the law and rubrics. My! How the Didsobedient do love to be obeyed!

    I had a friend who would make up his own responses to a priest who liked to improv his part in dialogues, fairly loudly. I think he was hoping the priest would call him on it and he could engage in a conversation about the integrity of the text, but it never happened, so far as I know.

    (Save the Liturgy, save the World)
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    There are good reasons for using a cross without a corpus, chief among them that the rite is called "Veneration of the CROSS."

    With that said, using a crucifix IS licit.
  • melofluentmelofluent
    Posts: 4,160
    Tangent alert.

    I was scanning the Sunday Ad circulars. Being of the boomers, I still check out Sears.
    Imagine my surprise, but moreso my joy, that Sears had on sale fo $99 (from $349) a 10K crucifix with a sterling Corpus!
    I don't know if this registers with many in the current consumer culture, but it was a revelation for me, as I did ten years' time as a Kmart manager. And guess who's getting one...
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Hey Melo,
    2 year veteran of k mart LP here.
  • hilluminar
    Posts: 119
    I wish we had enough of a congregation to worry about how long the veneration was going to take. We would actually have time enough to chant the Reproaches then!
    Thanked by 1CHGiffen
  • Jani
    Posts: 441
    You must belong to my parish, hilluminar!

    Our veneration typically lasts long enough to sing Were You There, or if more people were present we might sing Behold the Wood of The Cross. Sadly, the Reproaches we had practiced will now go unsung for yet another year.

  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    image
    I would say, rather, "there are good reasons for using a cross WITH a corpus, chief among them that it is the Crucified Christ Who is the true object of our devotion, and secondly that that is what the liturgical books actually call for...
    With that said, using a BARE CROSS is nonetheless licit. "
    GIRM
    308. There is also to be a cross, with the figure of Christ crucified upon it, either on the altar or near it, where it is clearly visible to the assembled congregation. It is appropriate that such a cross, which calls to mind for the faithful the saving Passion of the Lord, remain near the altar even outside of liturgical celebrations.
    Book of Blessings - Chapter 35
    Order for the Blessing of a New Cross For Public Veneration
    1233 - Of all sacred images the "figure of the precious, life-giving cross of Christ" (18) is preeminent, because it is the symbol of the entire Paschal mystery. The cross is the image most cherished by the Christian people and the most ancient; it represents Christ's suffering and victory and at the same time, as the Fathers of the Church have taught, it points to his Second Coming.

    1234 - On Good Friday the cross is presented to the faithful for their adoration and on the feast of the Triumph of the Cross, 14 September, it is honored as the symbol of Christ's victory and the tree of life. But the cross also is the sign under which the people gather whenever they come to church and in the homes of the baptized it holds a place of honor. When the times and local conditions permit, the faithful erect a cross in a public place as an attestation of their faith and a reminder of the love with which God has loved us.

    1235 - The image of the cross should preferably be a crucifix, that is, have the corpus attached, especially in the case of a cross that is erected in a place of honor inside a church.


    Directory on Popular Piety
    127. The journey of Lent ends with the Easter Triduum, initiated by the celebration of the Coena Domini Mass. During the Triduum, Good Friday which is dedicated to the celebration of the Lord's Passion, is eminently suited for the "Adoration of the Holy Cross".

    Popular piety tends to anticipate the cultic veneration of the Cross. Throughout Lent, every Friday is observed, since very ancient times, as a commemoration of the Lord's Passion and the faithful easily direct their devotions towards the mystery of the Cross.

    They contemplate the crucified Saviour, they sense more easily the great suffering which Jesus, the Holy and Innocent One, suffered for the salvation of mankind. They understand his love and the effectiveness of his redemptive sacrifice.128. The various and numerous devotions to the crucified Christ acquire a special significance in those churches dedicated to the mystery of the Cross or where authentic relics of the true cross are venerated. The "invention of the Cross" in the early fourth century, and the subsequent diffusion throughout the Church of particles of the true Cross, gave notable impulse to devotion to the Cross.

    Devotions to the crucified Crist contain many elements usually found in popular piety: hymns and prayers, acts such as the unveiling and kissing of the Cross, processions and blessing with the Cross. These can lead to the development of pious exercises often containing many valuable formal and material elements.
    Thanked by 2Wendi Andrew Motyka
  • henry
    Posts: 241
    The Roman Missal states that the Liturgy of the Passion on Good Friday is to be celebrated by a Priest.
    Thanked by 1MTK1980
  • JahazaJahaza
    Posts: 468
    There are good reasons for using a cross without a corpus, chief among them that the rite is called "Veneration of the CROSS."

    This is sort of an historical accident.

    Traditionally, when the rubrics said "cross" it was understood that they meant a crucifix with corpus.

    For instance, until revision of the GIRM in this century, what is now 308 and specifies cross with corpus simply read:

    "270. There is also to be cross, clearly visible to the congregation, either on the altar or near it" (GIRM in the 1975 version).

    When the authorities added "with the figure of Christ crucified upon it" it was a clarification based, not on the fact that they hadn't intended a crucifix with corpus previously, but based on the fact that people had not understood that that was what they had meant all along.

    Now... I'm not really gonna get on anyone's case for using a bare wooden cross for the rite, but it's not really a reflection of the correct reading of the rubrics to use (or especially to insist) on such.
    Thanked by 1rich_enough
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    Not to discredit the venerable crucifix, but a bare cross, or less often the Christus Rex was all but universal until around the XIth and XIIth centuries, when the cross with corpus gradually became more common. The most usual representation of Christ in the early Church, with particular resonance amongst Romans, was as the Good Shepherd.
  • donr
    Posts: 971
    Well let me add a little fuel to the argument.
    The Roman Missal III Edition states that the "Cross" not "Crucifix".
    At this point in the service the Lord is already taken down from the cross. We are celebrating the Wood which hung our savior. Thus the chant ...
    "Behold the wood of the Cross, on which hung the salvation of the world."

    RMIII does state this -
    "Only one Cross should be offered for adoration. If, because of the large number of people, it is not possible for all to approach individually, the Priest, after some of the clergy and faithful have adored, takes the Cross and, standing in the middle before the altar, invites the people in a few words to adore the Holy Cross and afterwards holds the Cross elevated higher for a brief time, for the faithful to adore it in silence."
  • PaixGioiaAmorPaixGioiaAmor
    Posts: 1,473
    Sorry for being lazy re: making a point and then not backing it up.

    A lot of other people here have made good arguments. I'll add that the original practice dealt with veneration of a relic of the true cross; clearly it was all about the CROSS and not venerating Jesus crucified.

    We use a crucifix, for what it's worth. As everyone has noted, it's licit, and as pictured above, has been the practice in Rome for years.
  • dad29
    Posts: 2,217
    It seems that some priests feel licensed to make alterations in the litugy that are not licit and expect their folk to obey THEM, which makes their folk accessories to the savaging of the liturgy.


    Yah...this Triduum I saw entirely new Rites on each of the three days, made up (sometimes on the spot) by ....apparently....the pastor. It's no wonder that this particular parish has had five music directors in the last seven years.

    Not really new. Ran into the same problem with an ICK priest. He didn't like the 1962 Rite all that much; preferred the OLD-old Rite (c. 1895) before all those Modernists like Pius X and XII.

  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    We had a large 'cross' made out of 2 x 4s with no corpus. A relic of the true cross I could completely understand.

    As the one sitting next to me said, The American Catholic Church has arrived.

    Father Z's take:

    http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/03/quaeritur-good-friday-plain-cross-or-crucifix/

  • ChantingOrgan
    Posts: 36
    Since the Good Friday liturgy is a communion service only I would think it could be led by a lay person.

    Not so. The Missal says this liturgy may not be celebrated without a priest.
    Thanked by 1MTK1980
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