That stupid Singing Priest Wedding video
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    http://www.chantcafe.com/2014/04/singing-priest-at-wedding-well-beyond.html

    And it wasn't the rubrical issue that REALLY bothered me...
    Thanked by 1Ben
  • WendiWendi
    Posts: 638
    Thank you. I couldn't properly articulate why this bothered me so much. You did.
    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • Jani
    Posts: 441
    It was dorky, true. But without knowing any of the back-story, we don't know why this priest chose to sing it, and other than the video, we can't say how the couple felt about it. If they are particularly close to the priest, there might be a reason it happened. Maybe the bride or groom requested the original version for the ceremony, whether jokingly or not. Gotta watch those friendships with priests, I tell ya...
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    They apparently were not aware it was going to happen.

    And he does it at all weddings.
  • canadashcanadash
    Posts: 1,499
    He does it at ALL weddings? How did they not know then? I've had to explain my point of view on this to SO many faithful CAtholics... and most don't agree. I'm a party pooper!
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    They were from outside the parish, they just chose that church b/c it was closer to their reception I guess...
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Obviously, THAT carries a bunch pf problems with it.

    But still...
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,944
    I think Kathy would focus on the banality of the text (as redacted at PrayTell): it tells rather than shows, because it's basically a recap of the action.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    It is ponderous in that way, Liam, but honestly textual matters are at such a rock-bottom low these days that hardly ruffles my feathers.

    Maybe with a different tune it could be in Worship IV, the wedding supplement? j/k (which translated means "just kidding").

    My take, which will likely surprise and offend, is on Adam's thread on the Cafe in the comments. I'm quite thoroughly Irish on my mother's side, if that helps.
  • Does the public performance of this adaptation violate intellectual property law?

    (What was that sound? Was that just Adam's head exploding?)
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Fair use applies, this is clearly a parody.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,159
    Also, there is a provision in US law exempting people from having to pay for performance rights for works when used in religious services.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    And parodies of religious services are doubly covered, I imagine.
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,159
    Some people in the congregation do laugh nervously at the song, but he probably didn't want that, so I think this was closer to a cover than a parody. Considering that Cohen wrote dozens of verses for the song and sang totally different lyrics on different occasions, the priest's version is almost 'standard' practice for this song.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    this is clearly a parody.


    I think this was closer to a cover than a parody


    I think you misunderstood the antecedent of "this"

    image

    image
  • uncharitable comment
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I found this tasteless and offensive. Sacrilegious. I am thoroughly scandalized by it - and all just because it happened in the Liturgy. That being said, this is my primary thought every time this comes up:

    It shows how out-of-touch we all are. Nearly everyone who saw this who is not in a leadership position of a Roman church (and half of those who are, as Pray Tell notes) found it delightful and moving. The couple were clearly moved. There was another video a while ago of a couple dancing into a church, with the same effect: everyone but the Roman musicians was delighted. (Seriously, I remember this being posted in an Episcopalian musicians' facebook group, and I was the only one to take offense - if we've lost the Episcopalians, there's no hope!) We clearly do not operate on the same emotional and psychological plane on this kind of thing as "normal" people do. Our disgusted response is to others the same as if I expressed disgust at Adam misusing "there's" instead of "theirs" in his post - which actually did offend me quite a bit.

    You all may tell me to get over myself and my petulant grammar-naziness and applaud Adam for his fine rhetoric. That's how other people feel when they hear us bash the video.

    I do NOT mean to say that we should be ok with this video - I AM NOT. What I do mean to say is that we should realize that we are out of touch, and ask ourselves, how do we do our jobs while interacting with people who take delight in this kind of thing? That requires individual reflection. When I go into an interaction with someone, I try to keep in mind what THEIR values are, and how I can explain my responsibilities to them in a way that will resonate with them. If someone mentioned how much they loved the video and that they wanted to have that song at their wedding, I'd probably say "I'm sure that song is very meaningful to you. I have a duty to respect the decorum of this church's liturgies; maybe I can make suggestions of music which matches the general affect of that song?" Boom. You're relating to them on their level. Note how different that is than "That is INAPPROPRIATE for the HOLY UNBLOODY SACRIFICE of the MASS!!!11ONE! You should be ASHAMED and I will teach you about proper HOLY OBEDIENCE!!!1~!"

    By way of comparison, I must confess to being a rather extreme introvert. I find being around people, and more so interacting with them, very taxing, stressful, and provoking of anxiety. Most people who know me casually assume I'm an extrovert, however. I behave as an extrovert in casual and professional situations, because I know that curling up into a ball and glaring at people would not advance my professional agenda.

    As a grammar-nazi, I suppress my need to correct everyone's butchering of the English language. As an introvert, I force myself into normalized human interaction. And as devout servants of the Liturgy, we should be aware of what drives the passions of those we interact with, and respond sensitively.
    Thanked by 1ryand
  • GavinGavin
    Posts: 2,799
    I also want to commend to your consideration Kathy's points in the Chant Cafe thread. I do think this is a useful tool for evangelization, if used properly.

    For crying out loud, IT'S A SINGING PRIEST. If you don't know what to do with that.... sheesh.
    Thanked by 1Kathy
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    I found this tasteless and offensive. Sacrilegious. I am thoroughly scandalized by it - and all just because it happened in the Liturgy


    I have to be the only one who hasn't seen this video! I would probably agree with you.

    By way of comparison, I must confess to being a rather extreme introvert. I find being around people, and more so interacting with them, very taxing, stressful, and provoking of anxiety.


    Yep, know that feeling well! Dealing with people can be a real pain.

    You all may tell me to get over myself and my petulant grammar-naziness and applaud Adam for his fine rhetoric.


    I haven't met Adam but am sure that if I do, I will either love him or want to hurt him. LOL.

    I have a duty to respect the decorum of this church's liturgies; maybe I can make suggestions of music which matches the general affect of that song?


    All musicians have that duty, whether or not they measure up to it. Some don't, unfortunately.
    Thanked by 1Gavin
  • matthewjmatthewj
    Posts: 2,694
    If a priest wants to sing at an OF wedding, well, I've got plenty of things for him to sing!

    The Sign of the Cross
    The greeting
    Intone the Gloria
    The collect
    If no Deacon, then the dialogue before the Gospel, the Gospel, the dialogue afterward.
    The orate fratres
    The super oblata
    The preface dialogue
    The preface
    The Eucharistic Prayer
    The Our Father and the text before and after it
    The ecce Agnus Dei
    The collect
    The blessing
    If no deacon, the dismissal

    Come to the feast of heaven and earth,
    Here there'll be plenty of singing...
  • BenBen
    Posts: 3,114
    Well said, Matthew. If he wants to sing, he should sing what is assigned to him and serve he liturgy, not make it about himself and sing the song he likes.
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    Dear Adam,

    Thank you for the nice photos.
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    Adam misusing "there's" instead of "theirs"

    fixed. Good catch.
  • Also, there is a provision in US law exempting people from having to pay for performance rights for works when used in religious services.


    Oh, I know that, but that exemption does not necessarily extend to arrangement and alteration of protected works.
  • scholistascholista
    Posts: 109
    I watched the beginning and the end because I couldn't take much more. OUCH!

    Adam, because you know what beautiful, good and true liturgy is, you can spot the counterfeit right off, even if it takes a while to verbalize explicitly what is not beautiful, not good and not true, liturgically speaking of course.

    I read once that those who are trained to spot counterfeit money first have to extensively study the real thing. Only then are they ready to identify false currency.

    Spot on, Adam!
  • Adam, good thoughts.

    People harp about rubrics and love, like the two are opposed. They don't have to be. If we are all about love, then our hearts are ordered to loving God first. Our worship is of the Holy Trinity, and should be focused on praise due to God. Our love for each other flows from this love of God.

    With respect for Fr. Kelly, he made a poor choice in distracting the focus of worship by singing a song that would have been an ok choice for a reception.

    With regard to Kathy's third point, we can make the most out of the good pr by gladly embracing our roots, and allowing people to be drawn in to authentic, God-centered Christian liturgical practice **and** by publicly living as caring, open, joyful, humorous Catholics. Evangelization through distracting gimmicks during the liturgy, however well-intentioned, is a kind of trickery. It is also unsustainable and inauthentic, and does not bear lasting fruit.

    Praying for all in Ireland, home to many of my ancestors and some of my favorite saints.
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen kenstb
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    I haven't met Adam but am sure that if I do, I will either love him or want to hurt him.


    I keep being told that Catholicism is a both/and kind of religion.

    ------------------

    in re: there/their/they're

    I REALLY KNOW WHICH ONE TO USE!

    But when I get into a typing fit, I completely lose my mind.

    And I used to proofread obsessively, but I have found that delays my publishing of stuff by days and days.

    Because I often use non-standard grammar on purpose (like starting sentences with conjuctions, and daring to boldly split infinitives whenever I feel like it, and altering the typical structure of serialized lists for reasons having to do with both rhythm and humor - as well as over-stuffing parenthetical clauses in order to ironically fore-shade the use of made-up words), I think some people assume I have some kind of typological disorder.

    Which I do.
  • francis
    Posts: 10,668
    Today someone came up to me and said, "What's with all the weird stuff going on at Mass now. They're constantly breaking the rules." Then he said, "so much for apostolic".

    Too funny.
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    People harp about rubrics and love, like the two are opposed. They don't have to be.
    I haven't met Adam but am sure that if I do, I will either love him or want to hurt him.
    I keep being told that Catholicism is a both/and kind of religion.

    Exactly. And exactly. Both/and.
    Charles, I haven't met the young man either, but I offer to hold him while you wield the stick. Then we'll all go out for Pimm's cups or whatever.
    Jolly....
    (Save the Liturgy, save the World)
    Thanked by 2CharlesW Adam Wood
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,944
    Francis

    Your parish has lots of weird stuff going on at Mass now? Do tell.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Yeah, like chant.
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Charles, I haven't met the young man either, but I offer to hold him while you wield the stick. Then we'll all go out for Pimm's cups or whatever.


    Thanks, G! I am convinced he wasn't beaten nearly enough when he was younger.

    Thanked by 1Adam Wood
  • Chrism
    Posts: 868
    To put this in context, it's an abuse of the following rubric:

    90. To the Concluding Rites belong the following:

    a) brief announcements, should they be necessary;


  • He was originally going to sing "It's a heartache".
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Or "Love Hurts"
  • chonakchonak
    Posts: 9,159
    Gavin writes:
    What I do mean to say is that we should realize that we are out of touch, and ask ourselves, how do we do our jobs while interacting with people who take delight in this kind of thing?


    I think the expression "out of touch" is misleading in a way. It suggests that we church musicians who think this act was a bad idea are unaware of some important reality, and that our perspective is deeply flawed.

    But that's not it. Gavin got closer when he mentioned in passing that he considers himself an introvert.

    That area -- the variety of human psychology -- is the reason for the diverse reactions.

    If youth ministers tend to like the priest's song, and liturgists (whatever that means) tend to disfavor it, the difference in opinion may be based on a difference between the "types" of people attracted to work in those two fields.

    Liturgy, after all, is religious ritual: it's about carrying out religious actions according to a (generally) fixed procedure. It favors consistency and predictability: a path that enables people to recognize the ritual, perceive its meaning, and participate in it fruitfully. Liturgy is ideally not customized narrowly for the people involved; instead it presents generic images of how believers relate to God: not just individuals, but believers within a community. People who really know this subject (i.e., not me) have written about the "objective" character of liturgy.

    This is very different from the attitudes involved in youth ministry: that's a work of catechesis and evangelization directed at individuals: that is, at the young people in a parish or a school. It has to be adapted to the particular people involved, their culture and their level of human development. They are developing spiritually, intellectually, physically, and emotionally; and (for whatever reason) youth ministry in our country often follows the way of revivalistic religion: making emotional appeals in order to help people have a conversion experience.

    It's no wonder if youth ministry workers value the song, an emotional appeal addressed to a newly married couple, and liturgy workers regard it as overly personal and intrusive.

    So what are the liturgists "out of touch" with? Are objective-minded, generally rule- and tradition-following liturgists **unaware** that many people in the pews (and many of the clergy) have a different way of acting and evaluating? Hardly.
    Thanked by 2Ben irishtenor
  • Adam WoodAdam Wood
    Posts: 6,451
    I am convinced he wasn't beaten nearly enough when he was younger.

    Accurate.
  • KARU27
    Posts: 184
    For what it's worth: I showed this video to my 2 daughters. They thought it was "really weird" and their eyebrows especially raised during the "pop wailing" notes. They are 10 and 14. They know that it is not fitting for Mass, because I have taught them better, and because for a while, we had a priest who didn't allow horrible music at Mass. It's not really an age issue, it's an education / taste issue.
    Thanked by 2Wendi ClergetKubisz
  • CharlesW
    Posts: 11,934
    Some priests like to perform, I guess. There was a religious order pastor at a local parish for several years. He liked to sing everything with great drama. We called him, "Broadway Joe." a couple of other priests called him that too. Fr. Broadway told me once that although he wasn't Catholic, Marty Haugen had a great understanding of Catholic liturgy. I knew he was an idiot after that.
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    I am convinced he wasn't beaten nearly enough when he was younger.
    Really, which of us was?
    He was originally going to sing "It's a heartache"

    In all seriousness, a friend of mine, nominally Catholic, with a very Catholic Italian-American family, sang "Unusual Way" at his sisters wedding ceremony. Saw no reason to make any lyrical accommodations, and apparently neither did whoever had any authority over the liturgy.
    There is no accounting....

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • Can't help it... I see visions of Shrek in my head when I hear this song... (lots of animated movies in my past when my boys were younger).
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • SalieriSalieri
    Posts: 3,177
    If he worked in the Diocesan Marriage Tribunal, would he sing "Knowing me, knowing you" for couples?
    Thanked by 1Jani