Latin Pronunciation
  • Cailín Ceol Naofa
    Posts: 38
    Hi, need help, choir is arriving and one of the songs I want to teach them is Be Joyful, Mary.....and I'm unsure of pronunciation of "Laetare" and this is why....

    I think I heard Laetare mis-pronounced......I had looked it up online and thought it was LAY TAH RAY, but heard an earlier Mass DM say LAH TAH RAY and then was afraid to say it at the Mass where I was DM......(which I could not have explained the rose instead of violet because the priest wore violet because he thinks "rose" looks like "pink".....oh dear...but I'm off my OWN topic).

    And for anyone scratching their heads wondering why a "volunteer" "DM" is unsure of pronunciation, remember I'm in my first year helping out (there is no one else)....and I'm not a cradle (head bowed) but I Thank God every single day he called me to His Church -- (head up and smiling)).

    So, I'm tired of looking stuff up online and being unsure....I think I need to post more questions here


  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    http://www.canticanova.com/latin_pron.htm
  • Cailín Ceol Naofa
    Posts: 38
    THANK you -- wish I had found that long ago.....see ask and you shall receive.

    So it would be Leh- tah- reh?
  • Cailín Ceol Naofa
    Posts: 38
    also choir had a recent debate about excelsius.....if it was

    ex -- CHel -- sius
    or
    ex -- SHel -- sius
  • Andrew_Malton
    Posts: 1,159
    Eggshells.
    Thanked by 4melofluent Spriggo Choirparts canadash
  • CHGiffenCHGiffen
    Posts: 5,151
    Eggshells.
    Just ask the Chanzeller of the Eggshecker.

    From the canticanova latin pronunciation guide:

    X gs as in exam after E, at the beginning of a word, followed by a vowel
    example: exaudi

    X ks as in tax followed by a consonant or at the end of a word
    examples: excelsis, lux

    Hence, excelsis pronouced as eks-chel-sis seems to be the correct way, which flies in the face of the (apparently very west Pondelian choral) penchant for pronouncing it at eggshellsis.
  • Chris HebardChris Hebard
    Posts: 124
    Liber Usualis (no. 801, 1963), p. xxxviij:

    ek-shel-sees
    Thanked by 2CHGiffen Choirparts
  • Ioannes Andreades
    Posts: 310
    Just be consistent. Remember, the Latin of Jerome and Ambrose would have been venee, veedee, veekee and that of Gregory I probably would have been venee, veedee, veechee. To Jerome and Ambrose, excelsis would certainly have been ekskelsees, but we don't really know what Gregory would have said. In Latin inscriptions, x is sometimes misspelled "cs" but NEVER "gs", nor are such words transliterated into Greek as gamma zeta. I'm not sure we know when the s of Italian esempio (<exemplum) started to be voiced (=z).
  • ChoirpartsChoirparts
    Posts: 147
    Laetare .... leh-TAH-reh

    Excelsis—eck'SHELL'sees

    Gloria in excelsis Deo .. GLAW-ree-ah EEH eck-
    SHELL'sees DEH'aw.

    From: ST. GREGORY GUILD. Inc. Rev. Michael de Angelis ...1937
  • Cailín Ceol Naofa
    Posts: 38
    Thanks a bunch. Just finished choir practice and it was very helpful. Latin is a large part my overall plan to move us toward sacred music.
  • teresa
    Posts: 12
    I was searching the archives here for a Latin pronunciation guide to give my co-op students. Thanks for the link to http://www.canticanova.com/latin_pron.htm ! It should work well. The audio CD for the program pronounces the second "c" in "Signum Crucis" as "sh" instead of "ch." I have no idea why?! I will have to tell the children not to use the CD for reviewing the sign of the Cross.
  • M. Jackson Osborn
    Posts: 8,368
    It all depends on what country one is in and what century it is.
    LIber Usualis Latin is rather a self-conscious, stylised and idealised construct.
    Thanked by 3CharlesW CHGiffen Adam Wood
  • McClamrock
    Posts: 29
    A few comments from my experience in learning Latin, and singing in the choir, at Thomas Aquinas College:

    1. Latin has long and short vowel sounds. A long "e" or "ae" doesn't sound like "ay" in English "may" or "way," but neither does it sound like the short "e" in "bet." (The short Latin "e" does sound like that.) The closest equivalents I know to the long "e" or "ae" sound are a Spanish "e" as in, e.g., "peso," "bueno," or a French "e" with an acute accent, e.g., "René." Thus: "Lé-ta-ré."

    2. Excelsis: I learned to pronounce it "ek-shell-sis," and here's why. "Xc" sounds equivalent to "csc"--but how does that sound? If the "s" goes with the first "c," it's "cs-c," which would be pronounced "ks-ch." If the "s" goes with the second "c," it's "c-sc," pronounced "k-sh." There's no reason to prefer the first alternative when you can omit a needless consonant sound by using the second. German and Russian, not Latin, are the languages for stringing several consonant sounds in a row.

    3. Two vowels together usually get two syllables, but "gu" as well as "qu" doesn't make a syllable separate from a following vowel, e.g., "qui," "lingua."

    4. R: "Never as American R," they say. Ha. Tell that to an American choir and watch the lack of response. Me, I think the American "R" (if not overdone) is a legitimate regional variation in pronunciation, as when a French choir sings Latin with the "R" and "U" sounds pronounced as in French. Try this with a French accent: "et in saecula saeculorum. Amen"--très charmante!
  • Richard MixRichard Mix
    Posts: 2,768
    4. French (& HIP Berkeley) choirs don't always sing Latin u as in French: [et in sekyla sekylɔrɔm] seems standard, rather than [sekylɔʁœ̃].
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