male or female cantor for psalm 22
  • Josie
    Posts: 3
    I am a new member and usually I just browse this forum but I have a serious question. Traditionally in our church the psalm on Palm Sunday and Good Friday is cantored by a male. This is my first year in this position as music director and I can see why some of music ministry would get upset about this. Have any of you heard of this before and is there any documentation that suggests the use of a male cantor?
  • Josie,

    Welcome. There is no sex/gender stipulation on cantoring for the Mass in English. The GIRM covers many issues but not this one!

    These issues always seem to come out of the woodwork during the first year as a music director. Even though your predecessors may have slapped down the malefactors in the past, hope springs eternal that maybe, with the new music director, we can get our way.

    The male/males that want to do this need to grow up or find another parish and music director to terrorize. I'm male but I'm backing you up 100%.

    Good question, glad that you asked it. We are always here to support good people doing good work!

    Added: An astute member of this group mentioned that my answer assumed certain things...so the question is:

    you assigned a woman and a man complained, or
    you assigned a man and a woman complained, or maybe
    you just heard about this alleged custom, and nobody complained yet?

    This is getting interesting!
    Thanked by 1ClergetKubisz
  • Kathy
    Posts: 5,500
    Yesterday's Gospel for the Annunciation was a dialogue between an angel and a woman, but liturgically read by a man (deacon or priest), who is neither. I think your parish custom, while probably well-intentioned, comes a little too close to making the liturgy into a play. I wonder if there might be similar customs on other feasts. I would suggest approaching the problem from that angle rather than from a gender angle, if possible.
  • Jeffrey Quick
    Posts: 2,046
    Why are there so few male cantors being used, to begin with?
    But a psalm is a psalm, even if it got quoted from the Cross. If your competent person is female, go with it. If the thinking is that "words of Jesus, should be sung by a guy", then the ultimate conclusion would be to use the rubric of the Passion and have the priest do it. That should turn out real well.
  • ClergetKubiszClergetKubisz
    Posts: 1,912
    Noel is right: it's your first year and people will be testing you. It's unfortunate and not very charitable, but people do it. Also, they will be testing you just for the reason he mentioned: can we get our way this time? I am in my second year as a music director and Ive already had to deal with a huge to-do regarding transposition, and scheduling, which I only half solved I think. It can also be difficult if both you and your Pastor are new to the parish, as people will be trying to take advantage of both of you at the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if you told us any complaints you got about this were internal to the music ministry: every single issue I've had has been from one of my cantors, and it's always been the exact same person complaining.
  • musicman923
    Posts: 239
    I was in a music director position at a church where there was one female who thought she was better then everyone else and ticked off all the other people who were part of the choir and over half left! The ones who stayed were all her personal friends of this powerful lady and no one ever questioned it. My first year at the church was rough due to this over powering person!! It took me 6 years to finally get a group together and we will have 5 guys singing for Holy Week this year!! I'm happy that the congregation gets to hear male voices again after so long!
  • G
    Posts: 1,397
    Somehow, I had never thought about this one .... in my last job, starting from year one, since we used almost no accompaniment during Holy Week I chanted many things myself to which I would have assigned a cantor otherwise.
    So it was a female voice asking my people what they had done... or commending my spirit to the Father, or asking why I had been abandoned.
    I did from time to time ask some male cantor if he was okay with singing that he was the handmaid of the Lord.

    I always tried to take my pastor's preference for a male voice singing the Exultet into account, but he himself was flexible on this.
    Before I was MD, unbeknownst to me he had asked my husband if he thought he could learn it and Himself told him that it had always been a dream of mine to chant the Exultet so I was tapped. (I love them both ;o))

    But ultimately, I agree with those who say it is especially important in your first year to resist being told what to do by those with no authority to do so, including those seemingly ubiquitous persons, Miss Thewaywevealwaysdoneit and Mr. Thatsnothewaysesangitbefore.

    (Save the Liturgy, Save the World)
  • Liam
    Posts: 4,945
    It's not an issue. Liturgy is not a historical re-enactment.
  • Paul_D
    Posts: 133
    Even though your predecessors may have slapped down the malefactors in the past, ...

    Brilliant, Noel!
    Thanked by 1noel jones, aago
  • Josie
    Posts: 3
    Thank you all for your help. To answer your questions, for the four masses on Palm Sunday I assigned three men and one woman, without knowing about the tradition. Then I was told of the tradition, on the flip side I also heard complaints about the tradition but not until yesterday. I agree Liam that liturgy is not a historical reenactment and I wil phrase it like that to the ministry. Well said. The pastor I think will back me up on this. This is his first parish (he's in year three here) and he still has people trying to tell him what to do.
    I am lucky though that I have very strong male cantors and I have received feedback from older parishioners that they can hear them and understand them better than some of the female cantors.
  • Hi Josie. I'm new also and appreciate that you asked this question. I was wondering about the very same thing. We just need to keep asking the questions, and some day we will be answering instead of asking.
    Thanked by 1rich_enough